Ask An Eastern Orthodox Christian: The Rapture

Spokane favs ^ | July 2021 | Nicholas Damascus

[Cronos]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Church believe in the Rapture?

Eastern Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics and some mainline Protestants view the Rapture as heretical teaching of the Christian faith. It was not preached or believed prior to 1830 A.D. when John Nelson Darby individually proclaimed that his teaching is what the Bible says Christ will do when he comes again. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John or any of the writers of the Bible or Christian church fathers did not preach about the Rapture.

The Rapture teaches the four comings of Jesus — first, his birth in Bethlehem; second, his secret coming to snatch away (Rapture) the select few; third, his thousand-year reign; and fourth, the final judgment at the end of time. In the Bible, there are only two, not four, comings of Christ.

Passages of Scripture that allude to the event of the Rapture are in actuality referring to the second coming or final judgment of Christ. He will return a second time to judge the living and the dead, whose kingdom will have no end.

The Rapture teaches that select born-again Christians will float into the clouds — no matter where they are or what they are doing — to meet the Lord in the clouds.

If they are driving, their passengers may die. If they are a pilot flying a plane, their passengers may most likely die in a plane crash. If they are a surgeon in the middle of surgery, the patient probably might die. If they are parents with young children and babies, who will take care of the abandoned children?

A better explanation of this heretical teaching can be viewed below

[Cronos]

GW - I normally heavily dispute with Elsie, but on the point GW, it seems to me that EVERY group that claims Christ as their Savior thinks that their way is the best, if not only, way. -- he is correct

Every group thinks their way is the best

One can extend this to ALL Abrahamic religions except Bahai'ism

I find the most amusing the Mandaen religion - they are a secretive 2000+ year old group in southern Iraq who hold John the Baptist to be their great prophet. These folks, in the middle of Jewish, Christian and Muslim majorities, believe that Moses, Jesus AND Mohammed were all false prophets :-D

Talk of p*ssing off all your neighbors!!!

[Cronos]

btw, your aloha.net link - the wackie one that claims Jesus is an angel and that voyagers from the Betelgeuse solar system are amongst us. That link is just wacky - look up real evidence

[Cronos]

MHGinTN In the sanctification phase of salvation God points out our sinful behaviors to us and expects us to work on it

you just described the Catholic/Orthodox point of view

The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification

The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace.

[Cronos]

Google books about some guy who wrote 500 years ago and that ain’t dogma?

We’re not talking about your prophetess, Ellen G White - whose texts you consider on par with scripture. If a cardinal writes something that doesn’t make it dogma.

But if Ellen G White wrote about black people being descended from a union of humans and animals, you Seventh Day Adventists take it as dogma, right? Along with your dogma that Jesus is an angel

[Cronos]

Rev. Charles Elliott, D. D., Delineation of Roman Catholicism

you take one of your wacky Adventist demagogues who claim that Jesus is an angel. you take that guy as your "proof"??

Btw, I ain't a member of the Society of Jesus.

[Cronos]

Jesus did not "promise to keep his bjorn agains from the hour"

Matthew 23:16 then those in Judea must flee[k] to the mountains, 17 [l]a person on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house, 18 a person in the field must not return to get his cloak. 19 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. 20 [m]Pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath, 21 [n]for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be.

29 [p]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days,

34 Amen, I say to you, this generation[t] will not pass away until all these things have taken place.

-- you see, they DID face the tribulation of those days. And they endured it and came out. Then they preached that Jesus had destroyed the sacrifices in the temple - superseded it with His supreme sacrifice.

And that was when the Jesus-movement came out from being just another 2nd temple Jewish sect like the Sadducees, Pharisees, Zealots, Essenes etc.

[Cronos]

I believe that God is going to physically remove His true church before the Great Tribulation just as He’s delivered other believers from widespread judgment of unbelievers in the past, like Noah and the Flood, Israel and the Egyptians, and Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah.

and in the book of Revelation

3 I will commission my two witnesses[c] to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.”

- the Law and the Prophets - the two witnesses

1260 days i.e. 3.5 years, i.e. 42 months - the duration of the siege of Jerusalem

7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the abyss[f] will wage war against them and conquer them and kill them. 8 Their corpses will lie in the main street of the great city,[g] which has the symbolic names “Sodom” and “Egypt,” where indeed their Lord was crucified.

The great city where their Lord was crucified - Jerusalem of 33 AD to 70 AD, the harlot city

[daniel1212]

"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4)"

Who are the redeemed from among men in Revelation 14:4?

[daniel1212]

" There is a ‘trial of belief’ coming upon the whole Earth which God has told us through His word that we are not appointed to endure"

Are said, Revelation 3:10 can mean "through," while "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1 Thessalonians 1:10) "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Thessalonians 5:9) is true, for as God can and will give the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent (Revelation 12:14) though many be martyred, so God will keep His own thru His own judgments upon the earth .

And so Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31)

Thanks and glory be to God.

[Elsie]

But if Ellen G White wrote about black people being descended from a union of humans and animals,

Is this concept what happens when one is influenced by Mormon scripture/history?

[Philsworld]

They are also commandment keepers (verse 12).

[Philsworld]

“It is a principle aim of all their [Roman Catholic] controvertists to employ every mode of evasion in order to disconcert their opposers.”

Charles Elliott D.D. has got you pegged, Cronos. And, you will say ANYTHING to evade the truth that your church is the Antichrist power. “Nope, it can’t be us because all that Revelation Antichrist stuff happened BEFORE the Catholic church” Preterism, brought to us by your JESUIT colleague, Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613). Cronos, you are one of his followers and you are living proof that those who take the JESUIT EXTREME OATH OF INDUCTION will say and do ANYTHING to keep the truth from coming forward, that the Catholic church is the ANTICHRIST POWER.

Revelation chapters 1-11 describes the rejection of the Jews and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.

Revelation chapters 12 - 19 were the overthrow of Roman paganism (the great harlot) and the conversion of the empire to the church.

Revelation 20 describe the final persecutions by Antichrist, who is identified as Caesar Nero (54-68 A.D.), and judgment.

Revelation 21 -22 describe the triumph of the New Jerusalem, the Roman Catholic Church.

“Again, Alcazar found no application of prophecy to the middle ages or to the papacy. That his interpretation differed so greatly from that put forth by Francisco Ribera or Cardinal Bellarmine, mattered little. Catholicism, the supposedly divine and infallible interpreter of scripture, was presenting two vastly different and quite incompatible interpretations of prophecy in a desperate effort to counter the claims of the reformers.”

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

Yep, you are a preterist, and you push it.

And then, of course, one of the greatest lies ever started by Satan, the pre-trib rapture, WAS STARTED BY YOUR VERY OWN CHURCH. LOL, you can hardly even believe it, can you? You thought PRETERISM or FUTURISM would never see the light of day on FR? I just laugh when you try to explain them away.

I’ll tell you the same thing the reformers told your church.....”no sale, Jesuit”

I’ll finish this post with a direct quote from one of your favorite Catholic saints, Bishop Melito of Sardis:

Bishop Melito of Sardis:

The Lord Jesus Christ is acknowledged as the perfect Reason, the Word of God; who was begotten before the light; who was Creator with the Father; who was the Fashioner of man; who was all things in all; Patriarch among the patriarchs, Law in the law, Chief Priest among the priests, King among the kings, Prophet among the prophets, “ARCHANGEL AMOUNG THE ANGELS”;

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc2.v.xv.xix.html

Hahahahahahahahahahaha, your very own CATHOLIC saint. You might want to talk to Francis about revoking his sainthood after he corroborated the SDA position of Jesus having the TITLE of “ARCHANGEL AMOUNG THE ANGELS” LOL Cronos, what is your church going to do about that? Melito is a saint, AND HE SAID IT.

[Philsworld]

Here’s the entire quote, Cronos.

Among the Syriac fragments of Melito published by Cureton is one from a work “On Faith,” which contains a remarkable christological creed, an eloquent expansion of the Regula Fidei.1376376

The Lord Jesus Christ is acknowledged as the perfect Reason, the Word of God; who was begotten before the light; who was Creator with the Father; who was the Fashioner of man; who was all things in all; Patriarch among the patriarchs, Law in the law, Chief Priest among the priests, King among the kings, Prophet among the prophets, Archangel among the angels; He piloted Noah, conducted Abraham, was bound with Isaac, exiled with Jacob, was Captain with Moses; He foretold his own sufferings in David and the prophets; He was incarnate in the Virgin; worshipped by the Magi; He healed the lame, gave sight to the blind, was rejected by the people, condemned by Pilate, hanged upon the tree, buried in the earth, rose from the dead and appeared to the apostles, ascended to heaven; He is the Rest of the departed, the Recoverer of the lost, the Light of the blind, the Refuge of the afflicted, the Bridegroom of the Church, the Charioteer of the cherubim, the Captain of angels; God who is of God, the Son of the Father, the King for ever and ever.

Cronos says: Nope, his sainthood has got to be revoked.

[BipolarBob]

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse

This is key. Believers down through the centuries believed the formula for being saved is to follow the law. But this is wrong. Belief in the sacrifice of Jesus is paramount. The law does not and cannot save. It only points out sin.

Heb. 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

IF you love God, you will want to follow His Law. His law is not burdensome with this love. The more you love God the more you look for ways to please him and rid yourself of those displeasing to God. These efforts are good but not saving.

[Cronos]

after Western Rome fell.

the Western Roman empire didn't fall, rather whimpered out -- check your history books instead of the "aliens among us" aloha.net

in 476 AD Odoacer compelled the Western Roman Augustus (emperor to us) Romulus to abdicate on 4 September -- but he sent an embassy to the Eastern Emperor and bestowed upon him the Western imperial insignia. The message was clear: the West no longer required a separate Emperor, for "one monarch sufficed [to rule] the world". In response, Zeno accepted their gifts and this essentially brought to end any puppet emperors in the West, with Nepos banished and Anthemius dead.

Net-net, the "Western Empire" became under Zeno and there was no more a "Western" and "Eastern" empire until 800 AD -- there was but ONE emperor - the Emperor i.e. Augustus, sitting in Constantinople

[MHGinTN]

No, not quite, but that was a strong try at floating another Catholic lie. You know your religion claims that in the sanctification phase if the sacraments are not adhered to and the Eucharist from one of your priests is not followed that justification is not continued. Such a subtle lie is a hallmark of cults.

I'll leave you to defend your cult in opposition to the other cult apologist festering the thred.

[MHGinTN]

There is a small clue which can help you see differences in groups. One is to realize Jesus gave theMatthew 24 & 25 Discourse to Jewish men regarding their Jewish questions regarding the Temple and the signs of the END of The Age. Matthew 24-25 was not given to the Church. Not until the Upper Room Discourse after Judas left to betray Jesus was the Church Age introduced, found in John 14.. Seeking to fit the Matthew 24-25 Discourse onto the church is an error that you can correct easily by going to Matthew 23 and recognizing the signs of to whom Jesus was about to reveal the future during the seven years coming of The Tribulation / Jacob’s Trouble. Whom is Jesus addressing: Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

[MHGinTN]

Beautifully stated.

[fatboy]

You are a preterist then. Says much about you.

[daniel1212]

"There is a small clue which can help you see differences in groups. One is to realize Jesus gave theMatthew 24 & 25 Discourse to Jewish men regarding their Jewish questions regarding the Temple and the signs of the END of The Age. Matthew 24-25 was not given to the Church. Not until the Upper Room Discourse after Judas left to betray Jesus was the Church Age introduced, found in John 14.. Seeking to fit the Matthew 24-25 Discourse onto the church is an error that you can correct easily by going to Matthew 23 and recognizing the signs of to whom Jesus was about to reveal the future during the seven years coming of The Tribulation / Jacob’s Trouble. Whom is Jesus addressing: Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’"

Like as Antiochus Epiphanes would seem to fufil Daniel's prophecy of the Abomination of Desolation but which was a precursor of what the Lord prophesied i n Mt. 24, so I also see the events of 70AD as being a precursor of a yet future fulfillment.

But good Christians can disagree on this, and the denial of the 1k reign of Christ (which is what this thread is about) should see less toleration, if at all.