Posted on 11/20/2020 6:19:59 AM PST by Teleios Research
Be convinced with these 4 biblical truths: 1. Each of us has sinned; 2. God is just, requiring a punishment for sin; 3. But out of love God sent His Son, Jesus Christ who by dying on the cross, provided forgiveness of sins in taking man’s deserved punishment; 4. Therefore, by faith alone in Christ’s sacrifice for our sins and belief in His resurrection, man can gain eternal life. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 3:21-26) Read more at https://teleiosresearch.com/salvation-explanation/.
If works are a result of Grace, then there is no need for supererogation, purgatory, nor indulgences.
For no one can do more good work than God has prepared beforehand.
And no one can atone for sins that have already been atoned for by Christ, whether theirs or another’s.
Don't get me wrong, I believe what you believe about the gift of God. We cannot earn, merit, deserve, work for or pay for God's grace of salvation. But, what I am defending is that writing/saying "free gift" is not wrong nor redundant. It reinforces that the gift of God is wholly gratuitous. Some so-called Christian churches really don't teach that the gift of God is really free. Though they may teach that you cannot do things to merit God's "initial" grace, they DO assert you must do works to keep the gift of God - that by your actions you can forfeit the gift. Now, the way I see it if you have to do something to keep a gift that's no different than saying you must do something to earn it. Either way, it's YOU that must earn/merit/deserve/work for the gift. It's why these kinds of teachings are so insidious. They certainly appeal to the pride of mankind.
You ask "who pays for a gift?". Let me give you an example, I use Clinique products and I often wait to buy refills for when they have "free gift with purchase" events. It's usually a makeup bag filled with sample sizes and some full size products. Now they say it's a "gift" but I have to BUY something of a certain value or higher before I get the gift. I've spent a lot over the decades but every time a special event happens I must always do something/pay something before I get the extra stuff. Will they just give me the gift if I ask them nicely? Nope! I gotta spend a certain amount and then they'll give me the gift - as long as they aren't sold out of them - supplies are limited. ;o)
Humanly speaking, saying you are giving/getting a "free" gift should mean you don't have to pay for it, but you have to watch out for the small print. God's grace, His gift of eternal life is truly free - no strings attached. We accept/receive His gift through faith.
A free gift when you buy something is not a free gift.
Your comment; “If works are a result of Grace, then there is no need for supererogation, purgatory, nor indulgences.
For no one can do more good work than God has prepared beforehand.”
This does not make logical sense.
If God gives us actual grace to help us become holy or as a promise for our good deeds. Actual grace is for the moment and then gone. Sanctifying grace can be lost through mortal sin.
Did you read the differences in Catholic and Protestant understanding if sanctifying grace?
If you believe that Christ death on the cross forgave all future sins, then you do not understand the Bible and reject Christ’s teachings.
Do you pray the Our Father and understand the meaning when you ask for forgiveness of your debts (sins) and we are required to forgive the debts of other?
Parables are teaching moments. Such as Parable of the Unmerciful servant (Mat 18:23-35) and Parable of Talents (Mat 25:14-30) These are examples of God’s forgiveness or lack of forgiveness.
Why did Jesus give His disciples and their successors the power to forgive sins, if all sins were forgiven by his death on the cross? (John 20:22-23)?
Christ’s dying on the the cross was the final bloody sacrifice for our sins and God then opened Heaven for those that were judged worthy by Jesus.
I know. Maybe they ought to think of another word to use? My point is that even in English we have to sometimes clarify or explain what is meant by the word "gift". I don't have a problem with "free gift", if you do then simply don't use it. Have a nice week.
Forgiveness is not unconditionally automatic but neither must salvation require confessing all sins that one has done. Christ's death on the cross provided for the forgiveness of all sins by faith, that of penitent repentant faith, so that in conversion such believers are forgiven of all past sins without having to confess all of them in detail, and likewise the same are forgiven sins after conversion if they are of that faith.
The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. (Psalms 34:18)
For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. (Isaiah 66:2)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (Colossians 2:13)
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Romans 3:25-26)
We are not even conscious of all the sins we have committed in heart and in deed, by commission and omission, and thus if specifically confessing all sins was necessary for salvation then at length who could be saved? How can one be forgiveness in conversion of all past sins without compiling a list, but for which the convert is repentant about, while as a believer the same must be conscious or and repent from every sin and failing?
In contrast to which is salvation being by penitent faith which appropriates general forgiveness and does confess specific sins when convicted of them. For since true faith is one that is penitent by nature then such a believer will repent and ask God for forgiveness when convicted of sin - insofar as one is able - which God can use others to convict us of. However all sin has detrimental effects to varying degrees which consequences we must deal with, and we also can ignore some sins or be ignorant of them and be chastened for them, even by allowing the devil to afflict us and even be too infirm to deal with them. And as in the case of the palsied man in Mark 2, God can use others of faith to intercede and obtain mercy/forgiveness. Meanwhile while to harden one's heart when convicted of sin is a denial of faith, and if continued, results in damnation.
When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. (Psalms 32:3-5)
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:6-8) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:9-10)
He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy. (Proverbs 29:1)
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: (Hebrews 3:7-8)
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:11-12)
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-29)
Why did Jesus give His disciples and their successors the power to forgive sins, if all sins were forgiven by his death on the cross? (John 20:22-23)?
Actually the only exhortation or command in the NT to confess sins to others is that of confessing them to each other in general, in communion with the body, but not just pastors, and which includes instrumentally obtaining forgiveness for others, and teaches that the power of binding and loosing in provided to all believers of Elijah-type fervent holy faith.
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. (James 5:16-18)
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20)
This shows that the power of binding and loosing did not begin with the church, though it extends to it. Elias bound the heavens and loosed them, and which spiritual power extends to what is promised to faithful believers in general in Mt. 18, beyond the disciplinary binding and loosing by a true church, but as part of it:
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 18:18-19)
Then there is also judicial binding and loosing by authorities. In Numbers 30 we see that the father of his daughter under his authority, or her husband, has the power to bind her to keep vows that she choose or to loose her. And judicially the OT "supreme court" to which cases were brought that could not be resolved in lower levels, had power to bind one in his guilt or loose the same, (Dt. 17:8-13) as do civil rulers today, to whom conditional obedience is enjoined. (Rm. 13:1-7)
Which judicial judgment relates to Mt. 18, in which corporate judgement is to be made in cases that were not be resolved, which Acts 15 examples, yet this is a corporately assented judgment, under leadership. And in application we have
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:4-5)
And thus the body of believers needed to forgive the one who defiled the body, with the apostle assenting as a representative of Christ:
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (2 Corinthians 2:10)
Thus far we see the contrast btwn Catholic confession and Scripture, and the above relates to James 5 which Catholics abuse:
Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (James 5:13-15)
Contrary to the Catholic contrivance of the power to bind and to loose, the man is not told to confess anything, nor are the ministers Catholic priests, and rather than being a precursor of death as is the norm with the Catholic sacrament of Last Rites, this is to meant to provide healing.
For the sin that may be involved here is likely one of ignorance, and for which the man is being chastened. And as said, we can ignore some sins or be ignorant of them and be chastened for them, even by allowing the devil to afflict us and even be too infirm to deal with them.
And in the case of the palsied man in Mark 2, God can use others of faith to bring one to Christ, and it seems also to intercede and obtain mercy/forgiveness for those chastised infirm believers who may be ignorant of their sins for which they are chastened. For the body is not one member but many.
To which relates:
And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them. And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four. And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. (Mark 2:2-5)
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20)
Thus we see that rather than regular private confession to Catholic priests being taught, instead confession to each other and prayer for each other is what is exhorted/commanded, and with intercession of holy believers of fervent faith - which the pastors are normally to be - being able to obtain release from chastisement for sins of ignorance. There is more to this issue but the above is what I can make of it now.
Yes, which is what almost all [Religious Arguments] boil down to, usually.
Sometimes even over the Thanksgiving table, with veins and eyeballs bulging and spit flying.
“If you believe that Christ death on the cross forgave all future sins, then you do not understand the Bible and reject Christ’s teachings.”
Roman’s 8:28-39 clearly rejects this premise.
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
31¶ What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37¶ No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Actually, it is not mere intellectual faith that is justificatory, but living effectual faith. And 1 John describes such and provides for knowing that one presently is indeed justified:
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)
it is impossible to regard our individual salvation as something fixed and certain.
Since one can depart from the faith, but that is different from the denial of Trent that one cannot know with absolute certainty that he is justified, which contradicts Scripture. But since Catholic justification relies upon attaining to a certain level of perfection, rather than being obtained by heart-purifying regenerating effectual living faith being counted/imputed for righteousness, (Acts 10:43-47; 17:7-9; Rm. 4:5) then no wonder Trent denies one can be absolutely certainty that he is justified. Yet it actually states that one can absolutely certain of his or her salvation if "as to Magdalen, to the man with the palsy, or to the penitent thief--a special revelation be given." (Trent, Sess. VI, can. xvi). is denied.
Thus while it disallows knowing one is justified based upon evidential effectual faith, yet it allows for a subjective special revelation as the basis for one being absolutely certain of his or her salvation.
If man, as the Protestant theory of justification teaches, is justified by faith alone, by the external justice of Christ, or God, the conclusion which Martin Luther (Sermo de Nat. Maria) drew must follow, namely that “we are all equal to Mary the Mother of God and just as holy as she”.
Positionally speaking indeed all true believers are, being made accepted in the Beloved in His account, seating with Him in Heaven, being sanctified and perfected for ever, and having access with boldness into the holy of holies in Heaven. (Hebrews 10:14) (Eph. 1:6; 2:6; Heb. 10:14,19) And "he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." (Matthew 12:49-50)
But if on the other hand, according to the teaching of the Church, we are justified by the justice and merits of Christ in such fashion that this becomes formally our own justice and holiness,
If "formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness.” Catholic Encyclopedia>Sanctifying Grace) means one becomes justified by actually becoming good enough, attaining a practical level of holiness and works in order to enter Heaven, then in essence this is salvation by Law-keeping, albeit "by grace," versus by heart-purifying regenerating effectual living faith. The former means one can never know if he/she is good enough to go to be with God at death, or have to suffer purifying punishments in mystical RC Purgatory. The latter means that as believers whose faith manifests "things that accompany salvation"(Hebrews 6:9) one can know they are in the faith (cf. 2 Co. 13:5) and justified,.
In consonance with his doctrine of justification by faith alone, Luther made the loss or forfeiture of justification depend solely upon infidelity...The lax principles of “evangelical liberty”, the favorite catchword of the budding Reformation, were simply repudiated (Trent, Sess. VI, can. xix-xxi).
Meaning a faith different from what Luther himself described as salvific within his prolix writings, such as that,
faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit... Faith cannot help doing good works constantly... if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit... where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith.. where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both. if obedience and God's commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil's own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead... if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation... faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works... faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire... it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present... where the works are absent, there is also no Christ... References and more by God's grace. http://peacebyjesus.net/Reformation_faith_works.html
Not in vain does St. Paul (I Cor., x, 12) warn the just: “Wherefore he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall”; and state uncompromisingly: “The unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God….neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers…nor covetous, nor drunkards….shall possess the kingdom of God” (I Cor., vi, 9 sq.).
Sounds like what Luther described.
Hence it is not by infidelity alone that the Kingdom of Heaven will be lost.
Actually all "mortal sins" are that of infidelity to the Lord Jesus, a denial of faith. (cf. 1 Tim. 5:8)
The principle of justification by faith alone is unknown to the Fathers.
Rather, the only "church fathers" are the apostles and prophets, and which neither taught the Cath strawman of salvation by mere intellectual faith or salvation by actually becoming good enough thru Catholic sacraments or RC purgatory. Among other distinctive Catholic teachings that are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels).
One can quote scripture, but not fully understand it or explain it.
Paul states that none of the outside forces can not destroy our relationship with God, but that we can. (Rom 2;5-10) and Rom 6:16) and Rom 8:13 and Rom 11:21
I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matt. 12:36-37).
Anyone that believes all future sins were forgiven because Christ died on the cross for all future sins is gravely mistaken and is endangering their salvation.
Well not at our house anyway.
And when did the sacrifice of Christ stop paying for my sins? For "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 (KJV)
I’m thankful for your blessings in that way.
So at least you believe that one needs to confess future sins after committing them to stay in God’s graces?
And when did the sacrifice of Christ stop paying for my sins? For "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 (KJV)
Since ADSUM actually invoked asking for forgiveness as an argument against all the future sins of believers being forgiven,then it seems there is some disconnect here. You are correct in saying "no one can atone for sins that have already been atoned for by Christ, whether theirs or another’s" as far as making atonement that pays the price for forgiveness, and you are also correct in invoking 1 John 1:9.
The issue - besides eternal security - is whether salvation requires confessing all of our sins and atoning for them and attaining to perfection of character in this life or in Purgatory, or whether it is the penitential heart-purifying regenerating effectual living faith, (Acts 10:43-47; 17:7-9) being counted/imputed for righteousness (Rm. 4:5) that justifies, and thus does confess and seek to make amends for wrongs they are convicted of. Meaning the effect is not be confused with the cause.
And (by the grace of God) above and above I have shown at length that it is faith, and thus the exhortations to persevere in it, and the dire warnings of departing from it. Meanwhile if salvation depends upon the Catholic criteria, no one can be sure they are saved (since they may miss by an inch), nor can they attain to the required level.
Your comment: “Since ADSUM actually invoked asking for forgiveness as an argument against all the future sins of believers being forgiven,then it seems there is some disconnect here.’
There was no disconnect, I merely responded with a question based on his quotation of scripture. Acts 10:43-47 refers to the forgiveness of sins by Baptism, not future sins.
Our personal Salvation is based on Christ’s judgment when we die and not based on man-made protestant theory, Yes, Christ’s death atoned for our sins and reconciled mankind with God. However as indicated in Scripture, everyone will be judged by Jesus upon our death. Accordingly, there is no absolute assurance of a guaranty of salvation.
Jesus wants our love based on free will, but does not force it.
Jesus continues to seek us like the Good Shepherd who pursues his wayward sheep, always mercifully there to begin the process of reconciliation (Matt. 18:12-13; Luke 15:1-7). Further, as St. Paul says, “We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose” (Rom. 8:28), so let us not lose heart when we stumble in sinning, but rather repent and reconcile with Christ and his Church.
Jesus established the Sacraments and His Catholic Church so that we could receive His forgiveness of our sins through the Sacrament of Confession with an ordained priest.
I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matt. 12:36-37).
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now us, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son Of God, and those who hear will live. ... and has given him authority to execute judgement. .... those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgement.Matthew 5;25-29
Are we blind? Jesus said to them “if you were blind, yo would have no guilt;but now that you say, “We see,” your guilt remains. John 9:39-41 The pharisees are blind to their deepest spiritual needs. John 9;39
For he will render to every man according to his works: ...but for those that are factious (selfish) and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. Romans 2:5-8
It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgement before the time, before the Lord comes 1 Corinthians 4: 4-5
Wile the protestant religions provide some truth of Christ teachings and encourage people to do good works, does the false teachings cause many to reject some of God’s revealed truths and His Catholic Church that may lead them to perdition?
Obviously, protestants can follow whatever version of protestant theory, but are they affecting their opportunity to join our Lord in Heaven? Shouldn’t all of us want to be with Christ’s Church even with all the mistakes and sinners within and as a community work to follow God’s will. I realize that Christ forewarned us that the catholic faith would antagonize the world and the world will hate us.
One can trust in Jesus that He has Mercy and is a just Judge and not the anti-Catholic vision of missed by an inch. So do you feel that Jesus makes decisions based on technicalities or just gives protestants a pass based on absolute assurance?
I hope that all will do God’s will, continue to seek His Truth and continue to receive His graces so that we will all be with Our Lord.
That is absurd! For forgiveness is clearly stated - as shown you twice - to be by believing in the Lord Jesus, and thus washing of regeneration was realized BEFORE baptism, in which this faith was expressed (besides praising God)! Thus you have provided another example of either rank ignorance or how Catholics must compel Scripture to conform to what they want it to say in order to support their false church.
Our personal Salvation is based on Christ’s judgment when we die and not based on man-made protestant theory, Yes, Christ’s death atoned for our sins and reconciled mankind with God. However as indicated in Scripture, everyone will be judged by Jesus upon our death. Which is another example of ignorance of Scripture, for salvation is not based on Christ’s judgment for they are already saved or lost before any judgment, and instead salvation is based upon heart-purifying regenerating effectual living faith, (Acts 10:43-47; 17:7-9) being counted/imputed for righteousness. (Rm. 4:5) Saved souls are vindicated in this as being believers, and if they dies in the faith, or are here when Christ returns, then as shown you more than once and blatantly ignored as you parrot Catholic prevarications, that wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord,” though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3:7f)
And the next transformative experience that is manifestly taught is that of being like Christ in the "first resurrection." (1Jn. 3:2; Rm. 8:23; 1Co 15:53,54; 2Co. 2-4; (Revelation 20:6)) At which time is the judgment seat of Christ, which is the only suffering after this life, which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1,8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)
The other judgment after this life is only for the lost, after the second resurrection (Revelation 20:5) in which the wicked are shown their evil and the actual sentences meted out according to their level of sin and accountability. (Revelation 20:11-15; Mt. 11:2-20)
Accordingly, there is no absolute assurance of a guaranty of salvation.
To claim a believer can never fall away from the faith - fall from grace, draw back unto perdition, make Christ of no salvific effect, to not profit for them - is wrong, (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39) and which I nowhere defended. But it is also wrong to state that a soul cannot know that they presently are saved (having examined themselves if they are in the faith, and to which the Spirit witnesses: 2 Co. 13:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; Romans 8:14-16), possessing eternal life (1 Jn. 5:13) and would go directly to forever be with the Lord at death or at His coming (see above), and which a Catholic cannot say.
so let us not lose heart when we stumble in sinning, but rather repent and reconcile with Christ and his Church.
Actually it is impenitent recalcitrant Rome that itself needs repentance, as do all who are in it and defend it, who are accursed if they preach her false gospel. (Gal. 1:8)
Jesus established the Sacraments and His Catholic Church so that we could receive His forgiveness of our sins through the Sacrament of Confession with an ordained priest. So after I showed you from the Scriptures that what the CC does is not what the NT manifestly did, you just ignore and parrot your perversion. Do Catholics think they obtain some sort of indulgence by such cultic responses?
I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matt. 12:36-37). “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now us, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son Of God, and those who hear will live. ... and has given him authority to execute judgement. .... those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgement.Matthew 5;25-29
The second quote is actually from John, and "the day of judgment" refers to the time period after this life, "the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.' (Revelation 11:18) In which there are two judgments, as shown, the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation, each separated by the 1,000 year reign of Christ (regardless if Rome denies it) with words and works formally justifying souls as being believers and rewarded accordingly for their effectual faith, while unbelievers - beginning with the devil - are shown to be so in the light of their works, and with them receiving the fitting punishment for their unbelieving deeds.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:5)
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (Revelation 20:2)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4)
During which time there will be unregenerate souls (which the elect rule over) and temple sacrifices and forgiveness, as Ezekiel 34-46 extensively details.
For he will render to every man according to his works: ...but for those that are factious (selfish) and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. Romans 2:5-8 It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgement before the time, before the Lord comes 1 Corinthians 4: 4-5 Indeed, after the first resurrection, all believers shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (2 Corinthians 5:10) For "every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour...Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-15) (1 Corinthians 3:8)
After which first resurrection and the judgment seat of Christ "they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6) Which is followed by the great white throne judgment of the lost in which God will render to every man according to his works, with believers acting as kind of jury, providing testimony to the evil the lost did. Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? (1 Corinthians 6:2) .
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:10-15)
The above is what Scripture teaches, but since mere men are the supreme authority for devout Catholics, they dismiss the true Scriptural word of God and follow falsehoods.
I realize that Christ forewarned us that the catholic faith would antagonize the world and the world will hate us.
Rather, your church has a history of antagonizing true believers, while today your great leader that RCS are supposed to look to is antagonizing the conservative sects of your false church, while the liberal world looks to Catholics for votes, with many calling it their home, while it remains that the NT church was not the Catholic system.
The rest of your post is simply more recourse to parroting propaganda in lie of an actual argument.
To add the word "free" to the word "gift" is redundant. My KJV concordance does not have "free gift".
New International Version For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Berean Literal Bible For by grace you are saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
New King James Version For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
King James Bible For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
nternational Standard Version For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God
John 4:10 Jesus answered, "If you knew the gift of God and who is asking you for a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
Study Bible Alive with Christ …7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…
And so on and so on.
Approximately one third of the angels followed Satan into Hell.
While, I do know the exact quantity of mankind that will follow Satan, it is probably as high as 75% which include most heretics and those that reject God’s Word.
You attempt to quote the Bible to support you protestant theory, but does the opposite; For example:
Acts 10:43-47 refers to the forgiveness of sins by Baptism, not future sins “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.” FYI one sentence or phrase is not sufficient proof of Christ’s teachings, one should understand the whole.
Your comment: “for salvation is not based on Christ’s judgment for they are already saved or lost before any judgment, and instead salvation is based upon heart-purifying regenerating effectual living faith,’
I see your comments as your ignorance of God’s Truth. “For judgement, I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” John 9:39
Your comment: “ But it is also wrong to state that a soul cannot know that they presently are saved (having examined themselves if they are in the faith, and to which the Spirit witnesses: 2 Co. 13:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; Romans 8:14-16), possessing eternal life (1 Jn. 5:13) and would go directly to forever be with the Lord at death or at His coming (see above), and which a Catholic cannot say.
There is no promise of absolute assurance of salvation anywhere in God’s Truth. “once saved, always saved” is a protestant theory that is false that probably comes from Satan. All can have hope until the end. Heb 6:11
Why does one need to repent if there is assurance of salvation (if Christ’s death forgave all future sins)? Acts 8:22
Your comment: “Actually it is impenitent recalcitrant Rome that itself needs repentance, as do all who are in it and defend it, who are accursed if they preach her false gospel. (Gal. 1:8) “
Again, you rely on false teaching and not God’s Truth. Yes, Satan is accursed and you seem to support protestant theories. Yes, there may be some Catholics that provide false teaching and support evil, like abortion, etc.(but not the Church as a whole), and God will deal with them on judgement day. The truth of the Catholic faith is strong and Jesus promises to be with us until the end of time.
Repent and accept God’s Truth and reject protestant theories and multiple versions that dispute God’s Truth.
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