Posted on 09/11/2020 12:59:47 AM PDT by Sontagged
That was my understanding as well. John as Elijah in Spirit was supposed to precede Jesus to fullfill scripture as the announcer of Christ’s coming. We know that Elisabeth was in her 6th month when Mary, newly “encent” with Jesus, visited her. Since we know about the time John’s father would have been doing his priestly service, we know when Elizabeth would have conceived John and then do the calculations. Infant gestations are about 36 to 40 weeks. Orthodox traditions hold that the Birth of Christ was to be some 11 or 12 days later(January 6 or 7) due to the Gregorian Calendar based traditions but that would accomodate nearly a 40 week gestation verses 36 to 38 week(9 month) one.
Hence December 25 is certainly plausible. I think there was a question about what office John’s father actually held and what month he was actually doing his service. Some have argued that since there flocks in the field by night(too cold in December some have speculated) that Christ’s birth must have been mid march to April and John’s birth was actually around the September trumpet/feasts periods. 6 months later puts Christ’s birth in mid late March to mid April.(depending on a 36 to full 40 week gestation) Also Jewish months were 28 days with corrections thrown in some years due to incongruencies between the lunar calendar system and the seasons. Now whether the gospel sources were written with the Julian Calendar in mind by the writers or the Lunar Calendar of the Jews I can’t say.
It would add some poignancy to Anna’s prophecy about Christ’s dying for his people which we know was around mid April. Did he die around his birthday? Who knows...does it matter?
Exactly. From what I understand they didn’t celebrate birthdays back in his day.
As we repeatedly see in the book by John, stars are symbols of angels. The casting of the stars to earth, is a symbol for the fallen angels.
1] And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: [2] And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. [3] And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his heads seven diadems: [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son
The 7 diadems indicate completeness, that Satan is the chief fallen angel, since diadems were understood as crowns in antiquity
And note that the dragon is red - Edom actually means "red", so the red dragon refers to the fact that Herod was an Edomite (an Idumean)
In addition he points out the events in heaven - not the material world
The author of this piece mixes up material things with spiritual, completely misunderstanding the book of Revelations of John
I can’t wait, thank you!! P.S. are you Cuban?
“And a great sign appeared in heaven” signifies just that.
When a sign appeared in heaven at Jesus’ birth, why not a literal sign in heaven heralding His Second Coming? Anyway, I am grooving on this day. Sorry you don't feel the same way.
OMG!
WHO CARES!
What is important is THAT He was born, not when.
How could the exact date even be known? Is there a time stamped video?
Here is the answer, a long time ago.
2020 years ago.
I put the "lost centuries" in the same bucket as Scientology, pre-Tribulation rapture, Chariots of the Gods as non-biblical actions
So, it is good to read about these ideas, but not to fall for them as we need to beware deception
How come it’s not fine with you if I groove on it a little?
I am just trying to point to you there is something BETTER.
Lee, neither does the date matter to me. What matters is not when Christ was born, but why he was born. Ecce Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi.
Well, Islam cares about September 11th enough that they seem to attack Judeo Christians on this date.
The occult Elites seem to care about this date, as the Benghazi human sacrifice occurred on this date, as well as the strange market meltdown that lost McCain Palin the election on this date when the economy crashed in 2008.
But the Bible seems to support the idea that this is Jesus’s Birthday and the New Year in God’s kingdom... so be blessed and “rejoice with others when they are rejoicing”... which I am!
Interesting points. btw, sontagged - thank you for sharing this article. While it has holes, it is definitely worthy of reading
I’m grooving on Jesus, in all His fullness, mindful that He is come in the Flesh and raised from the dead, and that same Resurrection power that raised Him from the dead is the same Spirit that lives in all who believe on Him; and that He was born on this actual day, a day we can actually understand by the Bible... and it all makes me very happy! Praises be the Lord of Hosts!
Prophecies in the Spring Feasts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTdAeCPoifk&list=PL800E3A7D1DB4FC69
Fall Feasts of the LORD
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBB3BE92F2783C495
Creator's Calendar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaoxRRfBMuQ&list=PLEFC186CD9395CEFD
Just a point though - Sep 11 has no real significance in the wider Muslim world. there was one historical instance - Battle of Vienna beside 9/11
One thing that is missing in the discussion.
September 11 isn’t in the fall.
It is in the summer.
That sign of the woman and the sun and moon occur today in the early Fall.
But thanks to science, we can know that all those dots appear to have movement compared to us.
So what occurs in early Fall nowadays, occured in late summer a few thousand years ago.
So Babylonian Sept 11 may be the ‘date’, but the day is always the same:
A New Moon Day.
The first day of the month.
And since ‘sept 11’ is summer,then Trumpets isn’t accurate.
The last summer month would be accurate.
And that is actually confirmed in the New Testament scriptures.
There is 1 day when people fasted and prayed night and day (Like Anna ).
That day is called Yom Kippur.
The 10th day of the 7th month.
Which is 40 days after the New Moon Day for the 6th, not 7th month.
The Word Became Flesh in the summer.
Late summer. On the first day of the 6th Month.
A day called the New Moon Day.
A holy day. A set apart day. A day the gate of the inner court was opened.
A feast day. A banquet day. A day markets were closed.
Once a month. Every month.
Muslims tend to mark each of those days every month. Some Jews and even some Christians.
Since a New Moon Day points to Genesis 1:1, John 1:1 and John 1:14, a believer would be blessed to understand how He tells time.
A late summer birth. On an appointment day He taught Israel.
Circumcision on the 8th day of the 6th month. The 7th Day Sabbath. On an appointment day He taught Israel.
Presented in the temple, 40 days old, on the Day of Atonement. An annual Sabbath.
On an appointment day He taught Israel.
The Word really did become Flesh.
That’s why Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits were taught to Israel too.
December 25 is not the Word Made Flesh.
But neither is good Friday a part of the Word Made Flesh..
Once a month, a commemoration of the beginning of Creation, and the birth of the Son.
And it’s mostly Muslims and Jews that mark the event.
And yet, Muslims and Jews tend to reject the Son.
Fascinating to observe.
Waiting for the day December 25 fades away and Truth prevails.
But along with December 25, Good Friday and Easter would also have to fade away and be replaced with Truth.
And even Muslims and Jews wouldn’t want that.
I wish I knew more than I do about it all. Thank you for your comments Cronos
Google “Calculating Christmas” by W.J. Tighe.
Also, you can check out Michael Heiser’s site if you want to go really deep into the weeds on this and other topics.
from my visits to Israel, they didn’t seem to have fall - just summer from April to OCtober and then winter from October to April. But perhaps someone who lives in Israel would know better
THX for the links.
The 2 years date was based upon what the wisemen told Herod in terms of the time of the appearance of the astronomical phenomena and the continuing longevity of the star’s appearance they had been studying and then decided to track.
The phenomena or “star” had appeared 2 years prior to their trek and was still apparent to them when they finally had their audience with Herod. The Bible records the Wisemen visiting the ‘young child’ in the house where Mary and Joseph were staying. Christ was a toddler by then and the family had moved out of the manger stall many months before.
Thus Herod had a fix on the time, the possible age range, and the general location of the “young king of the Jews. God’s intervention with the Wisemen and his warning to them to go home by another way as well as his warning to Mary and Joseph to flee in the night saved Christ from slaughter.
I think the star in question was something extraordinary...something fixed in the same position but not necessarily splashy that many would even be aware of it. It did not appear to move in the heavens with the turn of the earth thru the night or with the change of the seasons. Only learned men or special magi would have recognized the significance of such a phenomena. But that is just my view. others cite astrological traditions and match them up with rare phenomena and conjunctions of planets.
My view is learned Magi who knew the skies and had access to records dating back to babylon and ancient Persia might have said ho hum another king is born we’re going back to sleep.
But a single star, not so splashy but nevertheless persistently unmoving from it’s position in the west thru the night and not moving with the constellations thru the seasons....might have gotten their attention. They would have seen comets come and go but this star night after night for 2 years never moving never changing ...well they had to go and investigate it and investigate the lands and culture this star appeared over.
Since they were learned men they were probably familiar with Israel and it’s prophecies. They would have understood from history the releasing By Cyrus the Jews to return to Israel and may have studied the prophecies of Daniel and understood his prophecy of weeks. They would have surmised from Daniel that “Now” should have been the time of the birth of the “King of the Jews” as well as what that would have meant for them as gentiles as well. With the “Star rising out of Jacob” as fortold by Moses I think that was the final push that got the Magi to seek their savior and to rejoice over him when they found him!
That’s my view and I’m sticking to it!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.