Posted on 08/28/2019 8:31:47 AM PDT by Olog-hai
Evangelical Christianity remains one of the few topics about which it remains permissible, and possibly even praiseworthy, for a Jewish liberal to know nothing. Take evangelical attitudes toward Israel. Almost every time the subject comes up, someone will explain that Christian Zionism conceals, under a cloak of philo-Semitism, a nefarious agenda. Christian Zionists support Israel, supposedly, to hasten the end-times, when, as Bible professor Candida Moss writes, “Jews must convert or die.” Political scientist Elizabeth Oldmixon explains that evangelicals are part of “movement in Christianity that’s as old as Christianity itself,” and want to hasten “a millennium in the future,” in which “the Jews, will convert” or be damned.
This narrative is very popular with liberal and leftist Jews. Benjamin Koatz writes of Christians United For Israel’s “esoteric anti-Semitism” and that Christian Zionists believe Jews “will be prodded into conversion by the horrors of anti-Semitism… [or] God will inspire revelation in our hearts at the last moment, allowing us to proceed willingly into rapture.” The same logic underlies Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb’s article, “Anti-Semitism Behind the Christian Zionist Lobby.”
Liberals, and especially liberal Jews, enjoy this story, which allows us to score points against our more conservative co-religionists. The only trouble is that it isn’t true. […]
Christian Zionism isn’t age-old; its founders were innovating, largely in response to the Holocaust. Christian Zionists do not secretly want to convert Jews; in fact many argue vociferously against missionizing, flirting with the boundaries of Christian orthodoxy in the process. Nor is the movement fundamentally apocalyptic: end-time prophecies motivate some believers, but by no means the majority. Finally, Christian Zionism isn’t even entirely Christian, since it began with interfaith dialogue and was carefully cultivated by the Israeli government. …
(Excerpt) Read more at forward.com ...
an important point was that they had to reject Christ in order for the gentiles to be given the gospel- to in a sense ‘make the Jews jealous’ that God would give something so precious to the reviled ‘Dogs’, as Jews called gentiles back then- This was done I think to humble the Jew who had become so complacent and haughty about their relationship with God that they thought they could do whatever they liked because they were God’s chosen- God gave them a wake up call-
Another Reason the gentiles had to be included was so that noone could accuse God of favoritism- His love is for the entire world (although He DOES hate His enemies righteously) - and so that the unsaved could not use the excuse when the judgement day trolls around that they never had a chance, therefore they are not responsible for not begin saved therefore God could not punish them-
any person could become saved all down through mans’ existence by believing on the ‘coming messiah’ even though He hadn’t arrived yet— however the gentile world pretty much rejected God, and loved to follow false gods - it wasn’t until the Holy Spirit came that God’s word went out to the gentiles with power- (Not implying God’s word was impotent before then- but the Holy spirit did give power to the apostles to spread the word to thee heathen gentiles at this point like never before Because He really opened up the floodgates to salvation to them like never before-)
Up till Christ- the gentiles were so heathen that God had given them up to their lusts of their hearts- ie He handed them over to heir sins since that is what they wanted-
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error (Romans 1:24-27, ESV).
Here’s a good article on the fact that gentiles were always allowed to be saved even before Christ came-
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1475-did-the-ancient-gentiles-have-the-hope-of-salvation
Strange thing about all this.
Christians are looking forward to a Jewish Messiah (Yeshua in the Christian view) ruling over the world from Jerusalem (Zion).
Jews (Israeli descendents) are looking forward to a Jewish Messiah ruling over the world from Jerusalem (Zion). They believe the Messiah has not yet come.
Both groups are Zionist.
Both groups are facing enemies who deny the Word of God and seek a world government based on their unbelief, or their groups dogma and belief.
So Christians and Jews have a core belief in the Word of God (the Bible) as what is moral, what is immoral, and the ultimate end, or beginning of what is known as the future of mankind.
Within Christianity there is a core belief, but disagreement on how to worship, and the ultimate end, or beginning for mankind. These are called denominations.
Within Judaism there is a core belief, but disagreement on how to worship, and whether to follow the Bible, part of the Bible (Torah), or the Talmud.
Outside of Judaism and Christianity are groups that wear the garb of Judaism and Christianity, but whose core beliefs contradict the bible, or try to add “new revelations”. These are called cults.
Both groups (Jews and Christians) distrust, but need to realize that the basic belief in G_d (El”, Yahweh, Jehovah) separates both Jew and Christian from the world around them, and they face a common enemy (Satan) that is intent upon dividing them and bringing about the demise of belief in G_d, and the worship of Satan.
Having explained that, Scripture makes it plain that you must believe and trust God to have mercy and grace imputed to you. Just as Abraham believed God and became righteous, Rahab, a lying Gentile prostitute confessed that Israel's God was The God of Heaven and Earth in Joshua and was saved out of Jericho even though men women and children, dogs and cats, horses and sheep, were commanded by God to be destroyed. She accepted the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and was saved. A Jew will have to confess Jesus as Lord in order to be saved, just as everyone else will have to. Muslims, Buddhists, Shinto, and atheists alike will do the same or die the second death.
Bible reading Christians know that God's time clock is Israel. All covenants and oracles have been given to Israel. They are the keepers of the Word of God. The very Last Days of the earth will be in Israel. It will come when the 200 million man army lines up against Israel. The time under the Antichrist will be worse than the Holocaust under Hitler.
Now it gets sticky speaking to a Jew. They don't like that idea and start thinking I have animus against them. When I tell them that the Temple they long to build will usher in the Antichrist taking the throne and claiming to be their God, they look funny at me even though they have the Books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah and others. I don't wish these things on Israel, but God says that this time is coming. Just as Israel was punished with slavery in Babylon, they will face persecution again in the Last Days. I might tell them there is a way to avoid this by accepting the Lamb provided by God called Jesus, but they take offense and the trouble starts. God no longer will accept the blood of animals so why insist on a new, third Temple. The Temple God will build is described in Ezekiel 40-48 and has nothing to do with the Antichrists Temple built on the Temple mount.
So you can see that I believe Israel is my family just as Joseph's kids were joint heirs of Jacob's inheritance, but we all have family that seems to always pick the wrong things to say and start trouble at the family reunion. Romans tells us they have been made blind so Gentiles could be grafted in. They don't want to even read the New Testament to see that Jesus fulfilled EVERY OT prophesy for the coming Messiah. He quoted Deuteronomy more than any other book and more Jews are familiar with His quotes than even believing Christians. It's very difficult to have these conversations with Jews, however, because of preconceived ideas embedded since childhood. They recognize proselytizing and reject it out of hand, instead of arguing their side of the conversation. Calling Jesus a bastard and Mary a whore is a poor way to start a meaningful apologetic conversation. Most of the Messianic Jews I've talked to just read the New Testament with another Messianic Jew there to explain.
I have the same problem just trying to point out that the Dems were on Hitler's side in the 30's and FDR turned back a shipload of refugee's from Europe only to have them sent to the ovens, yet most Jews vote Dem today. The NYT praised Hitler every chance they got. These "memes" are very hard to remove and replace. If I were a Jew, I would have an arsenal of weapons and tons of ammo, then I could confidently say "Never Again!", yet they still vote Dem.
Christians should be taught very early Genesis 12:3 is still in effect today because God never changes. The reason Jews have money, invent new drugs and devices, own Hollywood, own the banks, have more Nobel Prizes than any other race is because they are blessed by God, not just to make the KKK angry.
The Bible is quite clear that God will put Israel back in their land given to them in Genesis 15 if it's the last thing God does in Revelation. Ezekiel 37 speaks of the reconstituted Israel coming back to life in 1948 and they won't lose the land again. Any attempt to trade Land for Peace will result in a terrible death of the negotiators. Attack will end in defeat and tears for the attackers. We are truly in the Last Days and Jesus will return soon and all of it depends on the position Israel finds itself in. Trump just accelerated this timeline by recognizing Jerusalem and the West Bank as Jewish land. Israel is discussing at a fevered pitch building the 3rd Temple and they believe their Messiah will come soon. Their Messiah will be the Antichrist and will sit in the new Temple before they figure it out. As Christians, we need to remember the coming of Jesus will be as Jesus is now, in all His blazing glory to judge the world and rule an reign for 1000 years. Everyone will know it's Him, even the non believers. He won't appear as a mere man as He did the first time. Moses came down the mountain as a mere man and found the people worshiping a golden calf. The second time he came down with his face glowing from God's glory. When we see Jesus again, he will come in a glorified body as He is on His throne and is described in Revelation 1 and other places. Zech 12 says the Jews will see whom they pierced and mourn. God has a plan for Israel as He had a plan for me. My job is to speak to anyone that will listen and let the Holy Spirit do what He does. If a Jew will listen, I will show them chapter and verse just as I would show a Gentile alcoholic the way to Christ. Gods plan, however is global and His land will be Israel if He must kill a third of the earth to do it. As Cain left the presence of God he went East of Eden to Nod. The garden of Eden is West of Nod which is the land today of Israel. It belongs to Israel per God.
Fascinating post.
A lot of it I did not know.
But I’ll pass on having this discussion with the Jewish gals and families that my cousins married.
They’re wonderful people and maybe it’s my job as a Christian to let them know, but I’ve no desire to never see my cousins again which would happen if I brought this up.
Very difficult subject telling people they won’t go to Heaven if they don’t believe in and adore Christ.
I’ll have enough problems entering the Kingdom myself when the time comes.
That's the ticket is to look for the signs. You might say you could speed up His coming by voting Democrat. He is waiting for the iniquity of the Amorites" is not yet complete. (Gen 15:16) When the earth got so bad God told Noah to build an Ark. When Sodom got so bad, Lot was removed by God from Sodom.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Luk 17:27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
Luk 17:29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
When God is ready to destroy the earth it will be like the previous times. The Days of Noah reflect the previous verses at Gen 6:1. The Fallen Angels mated earth women and produced monsters. These Nephilim ate people and practiced witchcraft and all sorts of other evil. The main sin was producing people God hadn't created. They corrupted the DNA that God produced in the Garden of Eden and produced something God didn't bless with "It was Good". Today we are editing DNA to produce chimera's that are half human and something else. This was done to corrupt the seed that was to produce Jesus to kill Satan's seed. The seed war started in Gen 3 started a series of events through history to stop Jesus from birth including killing all Hebrew babies in Egypt but Moses was saved, up to killing all babies born in Bethlehem at the birth of Jesus. There was trouble at Judah and Tamar and many other places in Scripture. An interesting verse can be found in Daniel 2:43 about mixing seed and the Antichrist.
Of course most of us can figure out the "Days of Lot. Sodomites wanted to rape the 2 angels sent there to rescue Lot and family. If you read it carefully, ALL people came to either participate or at least watch. They all approved of what was going to happen at Lot's house. Look at how crazy we are today. We approve of sodomites teaching our children, sleeping together as scouts, allowing men in women's restrooms, you know the drill. We can't even look at a person with a penis and know he is really a man without asking what pronoun he chooses. That's pretty far down the road.
Romans 1:18-32 is interesting in the fact that Paul says because God wants us to acknowledge Him as Creator, He gave us over to a reprobate mind and the first thing spoken of from reprobates is homosexuality. He is saying if you believe in evolution, you will believe anything so we have been given all this crap about sodomy being normal and all the diseases that go with it. Even if you approve of it but don't participate, you are guilty of it.
Mat 16:2 He answered and said to them, "When it is evening you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red';
Mat 16:3 and in the morning, 'It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.
Jesus is saying we know what is happening but can't understand the time is near for Judgement. If we choose to live in this sinful world and do nothing about it, get ready to be judged. You can't kill 65 million babies,(that's more people than dies in WWII) and accept sodomy, along with fornication, adultery, blasphemy, idol worship, and the rest, yet not believe God is coming to make things right, including your own judgement. So many think they are covered and gladly wait for Jesus' return, but will hear "Go from Me, I never knew you!" when He returns. Time is short and we all need to work for the Kingdom to gather treasure in Heaven.
This is the most difficult thing to learn, how to present the gospel without turning them off. Paul went into Greece and explained to them the "unknown God". If he had started in on all their statue gods, they may have stoned him, but he saw they had a spot for an unknown god and he chose that to talk about.
Also remember that you shouldn't cast your pearls before swine. You can read verses to them, argue eloquently for hours, but in fact all they wanted to do from the start was argue with you to tweak you into anger. If they aren't asking you questions, they really don't want to know.
Prepare the ground first! Pray before you meet with them that the Holy Spirit will plow the ground to make ready to receive the seed of God. Just arguing for hours will just get you uninvited to other functions and accomplish nothing for God.
Wow. Another great and informative post.
I’m in the other camp.
I’m already thinking of pleading guilty with an explanation!
Got a LOT of sins behind me and I dont know if God just lets them all go because you are “sorry” and ask forgiveness.
Seems like too easy of an out.
The ironic thing is that even if we speed up Christ’s coming we’re not speeding up anything because he ALREADY KNOWS when it will be.
If we do speed it up, he will have already known that.
Kind of mind blowing.
Bro, it’s perfect. I encourage all (1.5 billion?) Christians to donate to Israel— or at least to their local Chabad House. Thank you for the support.
You’re right.
Many of their stands on other issues tell me they’re not even following Jewish beliefs, as OTHER CHRISTIANS in my extended family are not.
OK with homosexuality, live and let live, abortion...
Funny...many great grandparents and (in my case) parents came to this great country with such strong religious beliefs and isn’t ironic that freedom and prosperity makes those beliefs deteriorate over time from generation to generation (not in all of course).
and that the Israelites (currently Jews) are God’s chosen people. Read the Bible. End of discussion.
Their rejection of Jesus Christ is not their defining characteristic. They are God’s chosen people.
I have a lot of crap about replacement theology That was/is promoted by the Catholic Church. I can find nothing in scripture that makes that claim for Jesus and for God’s abandonment of Israel or the Jewish people.
It also flies in the face of god’s attributes and character. He knows all the futures but made a promise that He knew that He would not keep? Sound bizarre to me and not in His character.
If God were to do that to His chosen people then what about my salvation. Is God going to change his mind again? Did God lie to Abraham and Israel? Did He lie about my salvation? So when did God become able to be evil? I thought that was not part of who He is
As an Israeli, non-Jewish Zionist are generally viewed positive.
I acted as a tour guide for years (I speak Arabic and grew up in what is now a disputed territory, so I had many Arab friends and could thus take people to Bethlehem and ares like that without difficulties.)
Generally speaking, the reason for non-Jewish Zionists was simply that G-d gave Israel to the Jewish people, and they follow G-d.
Period.
Got a LOT of sins behind me and I dont know if God just lets them all go because you are “sorry” and ask forgiveness.
_____________________________
All of us brother have a lot of things to be sorry for and we continue to sin every day. Being saved does not mean you are perfect only forgiven, which comes from a belief in Jesus Christ. And yes it is free and there are some expectations going forward. You just have to admit that you are a sinner and . . .
Amen to that!
But some of them I stopped because of aging and not having the reckless streak of youth in me anymore, And I AM sorry for what I did.
But it almost seems like cheating to make it to an older age and get to regret those things and ask forgiveness.
Had I died any time before 40, I would have been in much dire straights.
But the big part of your post was going forward!
It would be mocking God to ask forgiveness and then commit the same sin over and over.
maybe so but He first wants you to confess your sins to Him, ask forgiveness, and ‘go forth and sin no more’. That said most if not all continue in some form another committing sins. Strive not to. God will forgive you and will give you the help you need to avoid temptation.
God loves you first of all. and like any father with his children, you want them to love you and obey you because you know what is best for them in life. It is not a destination but a journey that you are on. do not get too hung up on the troubles and issues you may have, just take the first step. You will not be disappointed.
Hey thanks man.
Frankly, I'm not even sure what exactly a Christian relationship with a modern, secular state that identifies as "Jewish" even means, either.
We all have a lifetime of sins behind us. The secret to God's system is in a sacrificial blood system. The Jews practiced it for a long time then Jesus came. John the Baptist announced Jesus arrival as the Lamb of God. To a Jew hearing this, he would have automatically thought "A man that is a lamb?" "Lambs are for slaughtering at the Temple for forgiveness of sin." Jesus lived a sinless perfect life following all the Laws of God so He was the ONLY Lamb that could completely cleanse us from all sins. When He died on the cross, He died for all sins, past present and future. You must receive this free gift in order to claim it.
A non believer will think that too high a price and reject what Jesus did for them. You say you think it's too easy. No, it was terrible for Jesus. It's the love we have for a man that died in our stead that attracts us to Him. We literally love Him for what He did for us. We willingly belong to Him as His possession and servant. We still sin, but if we repent He is quick to forgive. We cannot be pried from His hand. If we are His and we won't repent, we can be sure He disciplines those He loves.
It no longer about sin but its is about belief and faith. Sin was nailed to the cross. What sends you to hell is unbelief.
If you believe you can work your way into Heaven you are mistaken. God says our righteousness is a a filthy rag to Him. many think they are not in jail so they are good to go. Well, a preacher that goes to church every Sunday and tithes and takes care of the poor is doomed to hell if he doesn't believe Jesus is Lord.
Heaven will be filled with people just like you, but they have given their lives over to Jesus because they know He took their sins on the cross so they have been redeemed and are the property of God now.
It's not a "luke warm thing. It's a marriage with no divorce. He has already proven He loves you more than any spouse will ever love you and you weren't even born yet, but He has known you from the foundation of the world and knew you in your mothers womb. You are just a spirit that He put into a human body that He will reclaim when you die. You can be resurrected to live forever in Heaven, or resurrected to burn for eternity. There is no grey area and no mulligans. Your spirit and soul is eternal. You must choose wisely. He told us that He placed blessing and cursing: life and death, in front of us. Then He felt He had to tell us to choose blessing and life. Of course many choose cursing and death. It's really that simple.
I'd say it sure is TODAY. Otherwise, they'd be Christians.
Jews are not like pagans or Buddhists or Hindus, etc. They are distinct from those other "religious" groups in that they were not created in a vacuum without the benefit of Divine revelation.
I can find nothing in scripture that makes that claim for Jesus and for God’s abandonment of Israel or the Jewish people.
Do you find anything in Scripture that explains why there hasn't been a Prophet in more than two thousand years, and why even devout Jews no longer practice the ancient ritual sacrifices in the Temple?
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