Posted on 08/28/2019 8:31:47 AM PDT by Olog-hai
Israel has a secular government as does the U.S. One cultural connection is that we are both western-style democracies. If you referring to our Christian connection to Israel, which God do you think Jesus was the son of? And who were his chosen people, to whom He gave that land for all time? And why do you say that Israel identifies as “Jewish” in parenthesis? Is that in question?
Well, there is also that Israel is the only civilized country in the ME. I would support them for that even if there was no other reason.
The more civilized countries there are the better off the world is.
I can’t tell if the book is FOS or the reviewer, or both?
“They also associate Israel with far-right, ultra-nationalist politics, as when the Brazilian Pentacostalist Rene Terra Nova “administered a mass baptism in the Jordan river to a group of Brazilian tourists before leading a chant in support” of fascist leader Jair Bolsanaro — a gathering that reached large Brazilian audiences through social media.”
Who is saying this, the book author or the clearly communist proggie moron who wrote the review?
Can you figure out if the comment on Brazil is the author’s or the reviewers?
That part was not in quotes so it could be that the review is paraphrasing what the author said, or the reviewer could be editorializing.
And I have no intention of buying the book to find out. :)
agreed 3x!
So are many other countries. And with its parliamentary system, Israel has far more common with Europe in that regard than it does with the U.S.
If you referring to our Christian connection to Israel, which God do you think Jesus was the son of? And who were his chosen people, to whom He gave that land for all time?
If God gave Israel to His chosen people "for all time," then why was Jerusalem sacked by the Romans, and why was there a Diaspora?
And why do you say that Israel identifies as "Jewish" in parenthesis? Is that in question?
I put it in parentheses because there are so many factions of Judaism today that it's impossible for an outsider like me to understand what exactly it means for a nation -- especially one with a democratic government -- to have a Jewish identity at all. From my perspective, any claim to a Jewish identity was effectively destroyed when they started having "gay pride" parades in Jerusalem, of all places.
Re the Jewish rejection “of Jesus Christ” for 2,000 years is not exactly what you mean.
For some of us Jews, we look at Jesus as another one of the “teachers” (rebbes) who came along during the BC/AD Roman rule of Israel, with a different message about how to react to this occupation and desecration of the Holyland and the Holy City of Jerusalem.
We find Jesus to be neither the “son of God” nor a “madman”. He was somewhere inbetween and those who chose to follow him changed his Judaism into a different form known as Christianity . It evolved after his death, but was not established during it or even in the first few decades (as I recall) as an established religion.
Remember, Josephus wrote about the “Jewish” or “Hebrew” revolts against the Roman occupation, not a “Christian revolt”.
Some of us, when in a discussion with our Christian friends, in terms of referring to Christ (as a teacher/rebbe) say that “He’s a Jew who made good” (with a little tongue in cheek and some pride).
Let’s be proud of what both Judaism and Christianity have given to the world in terms of the constructs of “humanity”, tolerance, compassion, and learning”. That is what we have in common while facing an extremist Islam that destroyed those concepts (and still is), throughout their existence.
#36. Re “increased immorality” and how fast and far things fell during the Obama administration, you get a cigar for that observation.
Obama (I don’t give a damn if he was born the US, Kenya, Upper or Lower Slobbovia, Uganda, Weganda or Iganda.
What counts is that he was always a Marxist/communist of the Alinsky type but with a health background affiliation with key members/supports of the Communist Party USA (David Simon Canter, Don Rose, and their journalistic protege’, David Axelrod (whose parents were on the socialist Left, Milton Cohen CPUSA/DSA, Dr. Quentin Young, CPSA/DSA and O’s personal physician, Alice and Herb Palmer, CPUSA supporters, and Frank Marshall Davis - to what degree is still unknown re Hawaii.
Also remember that Obama was buddy buddy with Marxist psycho terrorist Bill Ayers and his just as psycho wife, terrorist Bernadine Dohrn and other members of the old SDS Marxist Left that later formed the Marxist New American Movement and the split-off wing of the old Democratic Socialists to form the very large and powerful present day Obama machine, the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA).
Then there is O’s affiliation with wild man Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the so-called Christian preacher who ran the gamut from being a Marine to a Christian Marxists, a black reparationist (within N’COBRA), friends with Moslem extremist Louis Farrakhan and Christian psycho clergy Father Pfleger, etc.
Obama represents the convergence of the old Marxist Left with the Moslem Left, a process known as the “Red/Green Alliance”, of which noted researcher/author Cliff Kincaid has written a lot through his www.USAsurvival.org group.
Obama also was into drugs as a teenager, a great example to set for young blacks who live in some rough economic conditions, who lose the desire to learn because its easier to smoke dope and sell it than go to school, and who, like Obama hated the police (along with his pet racist Att. Gen Eric Holder) and the free enterprise system.
Yes, immorality (esp. with “Mommy babies” and no legal fathers around), raging alcoholism and drug use, a total disrespect for and breakdown ofthe family, education/teachers, law enforcement, and society in general (the Marxists in the educational system did their jobs very well) ARE THE RESULTS OF 8 YEARS OF OBAMAMUNISM.
At least President Trump recognizes these problems and is trying to fix them despite a hardcore Marxist Left Democrat Congress, wimpy/squishy Republicans, and a brainwashed, almost totally useless “Millenials” group of spoiled little brats and wimps.
Other than that, everything is fine Mrs. Lincoln.
No such thing as a “squishy” RINO; they’re just as Marxist as their Dem counterparts.
Israel is to the church as the caterpillar is to the butterfly.
Hagee is a heretic who does not believe that Jews need to go to Yeshua to be saved.
re calling Bolsanaro “fascist”, I would say it is probably the jaundiced opinion of the reviewer. I almost didn’t ping the article because of that line, but the rest of the article made some sense.
Good to hear! The motivations of the two groups (observant Jews and Zionist Christians) for supporting observant Jews' right to care and keeping of the Holy Land may be somewhat different, but are both in support of the same Almighty YHWH, whose gift of the land to the Israelites is for all time.
OK if you say so. I wasn’t addressing that issue in particular — just that the author said he preaches the “prosperity gospel” (he doesn’t), a wholly different matter.
I have trouble understanding his soteriological positions vis a vis Jewish people. They’re nuanced.
Not a fan, as Hagee is given to flamboyant hyperbole about things future (he seldom admits that his assertions are but speculations).
Not often someone admits they hate religious Jews and secular Jews equally!
In Christian terms, the whole idea of having some kind of special relationship with a country or people whose defining characteristic for two thousand years has been their rejection of Jesus Christ is bizarre, to say the least.
That's because the Bible means very little to you. Your utopia, your peak of human civilization, was in the Middle Ages. Fundamentalist Protestants have a very different frame of reference. They have no Middle Ages and no history, really (since they regard chrstianity as it developed historically as an abomination). So where are their ancestors in the faith? Where are their saints?
They are in the Hebrew Bible. They don't have Agnes and Louis IX and Bernard, but they have Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, etc. While your attention is scattered over volumes of post-Biblical theological development, theirs is concentrated on their bible alone. And the ancient Hebrews occupy a much more important place for them than for you.
There has been one and only one true Theocracy in human history. It wasn't chrstian. You have Constantine; they have David. You have medieval cathedrals; they have the Psalms. You have sublime statuary (most of which is forbidden by Halakhah); they have the Holy Temple. Is it any wonder they want it back??? You want to restore Constantine. They want to restore David.
You have no idea how absolutely and totally alien historical chrstianity is to anyone from the Bible Belt. A thousand years of Torah was intended to pave the way for another legal system, only allegedly superior because it was post-Biblical? How can anything post-Biblical be superior to anything Biblical??? Your veneration of statues and icons and saints and the virgin might as well be a religion from some other planet. Is this what Judaism allegedly "paved the way" for--something its polar opposite which violates all its most basic principals?
To Fundamentalist Protestants the whole experience with the "Law" taught the need for Calvin's Loophole. But for you it taught the need of another religion whose only difference from that of the Torah was that it was decidedly inferior. If one is going to have rites and ceremonies, holidays, holy places, etc., how can those of the Bible be improved on? They can't. Your ceremonial and calendar developed slowly and organically over the centuries. In the Torah G-d spoke to Moses and ordered the ceremonial and the holidays. You think a slow, organic development can trump the very Mouth of G-d? Pathetic.
The Fundamentalist Protestant wants nothing to do with you, or any form of historical chrstianity. A legal code? Doing good and avoiding evil (which according to Luther and Calvin can't be done anyway)? Keeping a law? Why not then retain the actual legal/ceremonial system that proceeded from the Mouth of G-d?
To the Fundamentalist Protestant J*sus came to provide them with a legal loophole whereby people who otherwise could never avoid anything other than Hell could actually be saved. They see your legal system, its refusal to promise or assure anything, as a very poor "salvation." Why, they were no better off before . . . in fact, they were better off, because the Torah came directly from G-d. You really think the replacing of one legal system by another (the only difference being the first one was literally from G-d) was an improvement? It was a disappointment, and even a decay. If there is no Lutheran/Calvinistic salvation, then why be a chrstian at all? This is the question I faced 29 years ago.
I'll never understand how people whose very rationale of chrstianity is so different can simply move into the liturgical churches because of history. If that is chrstianity, who needs it? I suspect this is one reason Fundamentalist Protestants refuse to consider what I say. They have to cling to Protestantism as the "one true" chrstianity in spite of its ahistorical nature because to do otherwise would be to admit that chrstianity is a fraud. This is why they resist you so fanatically, even though the ancient world never knew anything like Protestantism.
These poor people think J*sus died in their place. There is not an ancient church in the world that believes in any form of penal substitution. Their main use of the crucifixion seems to be as an excuse to start a new religion and to say the Jews are the "bad guys" now. To one who knows only penal subsitution, all this two thousand year history of "deicide" and "chr*st-killer" nonsense is without the slightest underpinning of logic. J*sus took your place in Hell and you are mad at the Jews for playing their role in it? What, you want to go there yourself?
Keep your Middle Ages and your cathedrals and your "holy wells" in every country in Europe. Keep your post-Biblical holidays and laws and ceremonies. If Protestantism isn't true (which it isn't) there is no alternative but to admit that the Jews were right all along.
And btw . . . the Jews' defining characteristic has not been the rejection of chrstianity, but the clinging to G-d and His Torah. This requires the rejection of chrstianity, islam, paganism, and every other religion in history. I realize that for you Israel has taken the place of (lehavdil!) `Amaleq. But there was already a Chosen Nation and an accursed nation. Neither one needed to be replaced.
Poor things. It breaks my heart seeing them living such a fantasy so stubbornly. But they will do so. But should the day come when they admit that your version of chrstianity is the original (or as close to it as we can come), how many do you think will smile and convert to it . . . and how many will ask the question "if it wasn't broke, why fix it?"
Keep in touch. Your concern is why Jesus was sent to earth-to die for our sins so that we don’t have to. He represents us before God on judgment day.
Read your Bible. Don’t add anything to it that you want to see-don’t take anything out that you do not like. Israel is a protected people.
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