What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

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[ebb tide]

What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

The Youth Pastoral Office of Magdeburg diocese, Germany, will organize an October 2020 “ecumenical pilgrimage” for young people to Rome.

The motto of the journey is “With Luther to the Pope”. A similar trip was already taken in 2016.

The pilgrimage is co-organized by the regional Protestant State church, although the Protestants repudiate pilgrimages.

On the trip's webpage Mit-Luther-zum-Papst.de, the tour operator, Hans Höffmann, remembers what Pope Francis said to the participants of the 2016 pilgrimage when asked by a youngster: "What is better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis answered in German: "Both of them together!”

Martin Luther attended school in Magdeburg as a boy. As a preacher, he led the city to defect from the Church. Magdeburg became the first major city to publish Luther’s writings.

[Elsie]

Posting a thread like is is bound to stir things up

I saw that; somewhere...

[Elsie]

Secondly, I'm not afraid to speak the Truth.

Are you afraid to go a month without praying to Mary?

[Elsie]

Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces.

[Elsie]

In case anyone is wondering about them statues behind Francis...

https://www.google.com/search?q=statues+on+top+of+vatican&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj799uopurjAhXZHM0KHaGsAEcQ_AUIESgB&biw=1366&bih=651

[Iscool]

Any Protestant (or other non-Catholic Christian) who is baptized (even as a Lutheran, Baptist or whatever), has received the Sacrament by which a person becomes a Member of the Body of Christ, and is therefore a Catholic in the Sacramental sense.

Naw, that only works for Catholics, Mormons and some 7th Day Adventist groups...In fact most of the Protestants get baptized only AFTER we become a member of the Body of Christ...Any baptism before that is illegitimate...

[NKP_Vet]

Bergoglio is a heretic. Protestants love him because he acts like one of them.

[ealgeone]

Bergoglio is a heretic. Protestants love him because he acts like one of them.

An incorrect assumption on your part.

Which of your fellow Roman Catholics is almost daily posting anti-Frances articles? I think you know who that is.

Who has posted a note calling him a heretic??

You, brother!

I do not recognize the papacy as a legitimate New Testament office.

There were a number of Christians on these threads trying to warn ya'll about Frances. Those warnings were dismissed.

However, your charge of Frances being a heretic must meet some very specific conditions per Roman Catholic canon law.

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2017/09/28/can-a-pope-commit-heresy-heresy-defined/

But let's say he is not found to be a heretic...just a pope ya'll just don't like. Can he be removed?

The answer is no...per Roman Catholic canon law. Now, some of your fellow Roman Catholics have hinted there are other ways to remove a pope other than legal means. I'll leave that up to the crazy ones.

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2013/01/31/pope-removed-from-office/

Short of him dying in office or some other calamity, ya'll are stuck with Frances for the time being.

[ealgeone]

Out of curiosity....do you wear the Scapular and/or Miraculous Medal>?

Is the question that hard?

Should be a simple yes or no answer.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"Any Protestant (or other non-Catholic Christian) who is baptized (even as a Lutheran, Baptist or whatever), has received the Sacrament by which a person becomes a Member of the Body of Christ, and is therefore a Catholic in the Sacramental sense.

A person becomes a member of the Body of Christ when the SPIRIT baptizes him into that body, and not when he gets wet. The SPIRIT baptizes every believer into the Body at the moment of saving faith.

As such, water baptism does not save, but is the first act of obedience after being saved. It is not a sacrament that saves nor places one into the Body.

"I do know that most Protestants are technically eligible to receive the other Sacraments, (e.g. my baptized-Baptist husband, marrying me, received the Catholic Sacrament of Matrimony).

Marriage is not a sacrament. Sorry.

"In an extreme situation, Protestant in danger of death could receive he Sacrament of Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick, probably all the prayers and sacraments for the Dying. You hear about this happening in situations of war, epidemic and natural disaster.

None of which saves.

Best

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"Catholics are always baptized as the Bible’s words of Jesus instructions while pouring water three times of the person being baptized.

Scripture does not specify pouring water three times.

[Hieronymus]

Bitter zeal most definitely involves a passion for truth.

And misunderstandings, including self-misunderstandings, take many forms.

I do thank you for your well wishing.

[Hieronymus]

Call no woman mother (except for Mary)

---

I missed that one. It’s also kind of hard to square with John’s passion account.

NBL, NBL

[Salvation]

Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass in another rite?

Everything (excepting the language) is there. I would suggest a Maronite Mass. There is probably one in your area.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass in another rite?”

Thank you, but I am a former Catholic who is now a Christian.

I still go to some family funerals (hopefully having shared the Gospel with the family member before they passed away).

When I do attend, I am amazed at the idolatry, and the failure to share the Gospel.

“Everything (excepting the language) is there. I would suggest a Maronite Mass. There is probably one in your area.”

Again, no “marionite” stuff for me.

I consider it idolatry.

The amazing thing is that when someone comes to saving faith in Christ, he can see Catholicism for what it is.

I wish you the best.

[daniel1212]

Any Protestant (or other non-Catholic Christian) who is baptized (even as a Lutheran, Baptist or whatever), has received the Sacrament by which a person becomes a Member of the Body of Christ, and is therefore a Catholic in the Sacramental sense.

Which is contrary to years of papal and conciliar teaching such as states that “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff, "the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing," "in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors," "whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church," "subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful," "The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that..not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life but will depart into everlasting fire...unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that..no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church;”

Another council comes along and creates distinct divisions such as by asserting,

there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ," …those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church,” the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation...”

[And even] the Moslems, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God," "They adore one God, living and enduring, merciful and all-powerful, Maker of heaven and earth."

Sources

The RadTradCaths cite the former as being the true RC teaching, while the ecumenical shades hold that V2 is the interpreter of the former, though they interpret V2..

That's because this person, we're assuming, has not wittingly or willingly committed the sins of heresy, apostasy or schism.

Which is an interpretation of “Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved,” (Lumen Gentium 14)

Now if I did know of a truth that such and such a church was uniquely the one true church and necessary for salvation, and refused to be part of it, then indeed I would be damned.

However, as for "know," I certainly know that Rome and the EOs, Mormons and other elitists claim to be made necessary by Christ, but i also certainly know that none of them (or any) are uniquely the one true church (which is only the body of Christ), and necessary for salvation.

And as for "necessary," even if it were true that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, in the sense that the Jews were, then it does not follow that one should join it now.

However, the popes and councils who denied salvation to all who were in the bosom of their church and subject to the pope did not engage in such equivocation, while the fact that a later council can come along and "clarify" teachings to such an extent and degree that 60 years of schisms and sects have resulted sets a precedent for more, and does not enhance the magisterial office of Rome.

On the topic of this bizarre papacy, I am not morally sure whether Jorge Bergoglio is the pope or not.

So many Catholics do not even know for sure who the earthly head of their church is? Meaning the magisterium has caused more problems for the faithful, and failed to solve them.

As one poster wryly commented,

The last time the church imposed its judgment in an authoritative manner on "areas of legitimate disagreement," the conservative Catholics became the Sedevacantists and the Society of St. Pius X, the moderate Catholics became the conservatives, the liberal Catholics became the moderates, and the folks who were excommunicated, silenced, refused Catholic burial, etc. became the liberals. The event that brought this shift was Vatican II; conservatives then couldn't handle having to actually obey the church on matters they were uncomfortable with, so they left. ” - Nathan, http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/05/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of.html

[Mrs. Don-o]

Well, sez you. Bu you still get the extra deluxe feature of becoming a Catholic in the incipient sense, automatically, and having your baptism considered a sacrament, at no extra cost, smells and bells optional. It's kinda like getting married. You automatically acquire bunch of inlaws, cousins and kin as "family" whether you actually wanted them or not. It's a package deal. We're family now, aMPU. We're stuck!

Luke 8:21 King James Bible
And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Well, sez you.

God’s Word has no sacramental system of merit.

I belong to a universal church, but not a Roman church.

Best

[Salvation]

Catholics ARE Christians.

They are members of the church founded by Jesus Christ.

[MHGinTN]

BTW, what aircraft flew out of NKP?

[MHGinTN]

Regardless of what signs and lying wonders catch your fancy, do not accept the MArk when it is commanded to you, even if one of your priests is commanding it! DO NOT TAKE THE MARK after the Bride of Christ is taken out of the man of sin’s way in the Rapture of ALL believers since Pentecost..