Posted on 11/05/2018 6:07:05 PM PST by Gamecock
According to the Handbook for Today's Catholic, page 47,
"If you die in the love of God but possess any stains of sin, such stains are cleansed away in a purifying process called Purgatory. These stains of sin are primarily the temporal punishment due to venial or mortal sins already forgiven but for which sufficient penance was not done during your lifetime."
The Catholic Catechism, paragraph 1030, says that Purgatory is for "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death, they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."
Among the many doctrines that Catholicism claims to be derived through Sacred Tradition, Purgatory is one of the most interesting and puzzling, particularly to a Protestant. In light of the Pauline doctrine of justification by grace through faith, how is it possible that an afterlife cleansing through punishment is necessary for a Christian who has trusted in Jesus to cleanse him from all His sins? Wasn't Jesus' punishment for our transgressions sufficient? Didn't He take our place in that He suffered our death? It would seem that the words of Christ, "It is finished," (John 19:30) do not mean that the cleansing of our souls was completed on the cross.
Of course, Roman Catholic doctrine states that eternal life is bestowed upon the one who receives baptism (Catechism, par. 1265 - 1266, 1992). It is the stains of the sins committed after baptism and not removed through penance, good works, prayers, the Mass, etc., that are removed in the fires of Purgatory (Handbook for Today's Catholic, page 47).
In light of the doctrine of justification by faith (Rom. 5:1; Rom. 4:5; Rom. 9:30; Acts 13:39; Gal. 2:16), where Jesus bore all of our sins, Purgatory would seem to have no theologically justifiable right to exist. But the Bible alone is not appealed to by Catholic theologians in support of Purgatory. By far, the main support for Purgatory is found in the Catholic doctrine of Sacred Tradition. Nevertheless, what does the Bible say about justification, punishment, and our sins?
What is justification by faith?
To justify means acquit, declare righteous, the opposite of condemn. It means to be not guilty of breaking the Law and to be deemed righteous by the standard of the Law.
God gave the Law, i.e, the Ten Commandments. The Law is a reflection of God's character and it is a perfect standard of righteousness which no one can keep. Since no one is able to keep God's Law, no one can be justified by the Law (Rom. 3:20). There is, therefore, none righteous (Rom. 3:10-12). This is the problem of all people. We have all broken God's Law and are in need of justification, of being declared righteous in God's sight. This can only be done through the Messiah, our sin-bearer.
Jesus is the one who took our place on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21), and turned away the wrath of God from us (Rom. 5:9) by being a propitiation (1 John 2:2) that turned away the wrath of God. He was punished in our place. Therefore, Jesus was our substitution. The righteous work of Christ is imputed to the believer by grace (Titus 3:7) and through faith (Rom. 5:1). This justification is a legal action on the part of God reckoning the believer as having satisfied the Law -- all of the Law.
It necessarily follows that to be justified in God's eyes, is to be fully justified. It is not part of the Law that must be satisfied, but all of it. Perfection is the standard. Likewise, it is not part of our sins that were borne by Christ, but all of them. This justification includes all of the sins of the believer (past, present, and future) or else we could not be justified.
What does the Catholic Catechism Say? The Catholic Catechism (paragraphs 1990-1992) says,
"Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals"...."Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ..." and "...justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy."
Of particular interest is the reference that "justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith." There are many verses in the Bible that deal with baptism and putting on Christ (Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:1-11). This paper is not intended to discuss the nature of baptism. Nevertheless, I strongly affirm that baptism is a covenant sign for the believer who is already justified by faith and for the children of believers who are under the covenant headship of the family. Baptism is not what justifies a person. Rather,
Justification is a gift by His grace through Jesus (Rom. 3:24) Justification is by grace (Titus 3:7) Justification is by faith (Rom. 3:28; 5:1; Gal. 3:24) Justification is by Jesus' blood (Rom. 5:9). Justification is in the name of the Lord Jesus (1 Cor. 6:11). Justification is not equated with baptism, but with grace, faith, and the blood of Jesus. Jesus said, "It is finished," (John 19:30) Jesus bore our sins in His body, paid the penalty for them, and died. He said, "It is finished." In Greek, the phrase, "It is finished" is one word, tetelestai. In ancient Greek papyri texts that were receipts for taxes, when a debt was paid in full, the word tetelestai was written on the document. This meant that the debt had been paid in full. In other words, Jesus had finished the work of atonement. But not only atonement (to make amends, to make right), but also of propitiation (turning away God's wrath). He had fully paid the debt invoked by the sinner. There was nothing more to be done... It was finished.
Yet, the doctrine of Purgatory, in effect, is saying that we must suffer in Purgatory for sins not covered by baptism and not covered by the cross. It is to say that the work of Christ is not finished and that there are things we must do to complete the sacrificial, cleansing work of Christ. This amounts to earning heaven by our good works, albeit a work of suffering. Additionally, the doctrine of Purgatory implies that a person must atone for his own sins. It implies that the person must do more than what the Law of God requires of him. This is called supererogation.
When Jesus said, "It is finished," all that was necessary for the atonement was concluded and all in Christ were justified. We cannot complete or add to Christ's work through our suffering. Purgatory is not only unnecessary but also it contradicts God's Word.
When Nathan told David that his sin was forgiven, was he lying?
CARM hasn’t gotten any smarter in the last 20 years.
And so is the Bible...
Which came first? The Catholic Church? Or, the Catholic Holy Bible?
Who was the Church of Christ Jesus, but for passing on His oral teaching and established tradition, prevalent centuries before there was a Holy Bible?
Who developed the canon of the Holy Bible? The Catholic Church?
Or, Luther? Or, maybe Henry the VIII?
How many Books came up missing from the Holy Bible, under the hand of dissident Catholics protestants?
Where in the Holy and inspired Word of God does it say to despise Tradition and worship only Sacred Scripture, or to know nothing more of the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Fathers who followed?
What does the Sacred Scripture say of itself, but that it does *not” contain *ALL* that Jesus said and did? So what was that? Rather, scripture says of itself that it may be used for teaching and admonishment. Not for worshipping.
The Church was always Catholic and fairly wrote the Holy Bible. The Church developed the canons of the Holy Bible and fears nothing in it, certainly.
Faith is a gift, and humbling. Like love, it is not boastful and arrogant and obnoxious. Catholics must not be baited by these kinds of threads.
Purgatory is not a hospital and was never taught as much.
Jesus blood is sufficient to cleanse our sins, and by His stripes we are healed.
So again, even if your claim is true, then it also negates the whole work of atonement in healing as well as forgiveness.
No matter how you try to get around it, the doctrine of purgatory teaches that the work of Jesus, His suffering and death, is insufficient for our needs.
And aside from the fact that purgatory does not exist and the concept is never taught or alluded to in Scripture, your understanding of "Protestant" teaching is out to lunch.
Paul tells us that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
No room for purgatory there.
That can happen here on earth.
Fi4rst, assurance of salvation is the sin of Presumption according to your FRoman com-patriots.
You're not supposed to have it.
GOD tells us in Scripture, His God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired word that HE gave us, that the blood of Jesus IS sufficient to cleanse us from ALL sin.
"All" means "all", as in each and every one.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Cleansing us from ALL unrighteousness also negates the need you claim to have for purgatory.
James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
And yet Catholics continually neglect to include that verse when they address the faith vs faith plus works issue.
It's not that faith plus works save.
It's that faith that saves produces works, which is how you know you have saving faith.
Works are the evidence that saving faith exists. They don't *complete* it. They announce it.
Enumerate please.
You have hit upon a very common Orthodox belief (not mandatory, but a pious belief). The concept of toll houses.
Yes, Christ’s sacrifice was all that we need to enter the kingdom of Heaven. It is sufficient. The real question being ignored is whether we are sufficient.
Our sins are forgiven by the blood of our Savior. This is indisputable. Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox.
Is our propensity to sin (our desire to continue to do so) even with forgiveness acceptable in the presence of God? This would just seem wrong. This desire has to go away. After we pass from this world, if we are to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Christ’s blood has opened the door), we must be pure of heart, not just of sin.
A pious believe of the Orthodox is Toll Houses on the way to Heaven. We spend time at each one that deal with our propensity to sin, until the desire is gone and we move on. This is roughly the same belief I see expressed by the more conservative Catholics on this site about purgatory.
If I’m not mistaken, the Catholic belief comes from the book of Maccabees. Where some of the warriors were found with amulets that represented other gods. They were instructed to pray for forgiveness of the fallen. This unfortunately seems like a very weak justification and I can understand Protestants having trouble with it. From an Orthodox point of view it seems pulled out of a very weak verse and I wish I saw Catholics making a stronger argument from Biblical sources or the Saints themselves. (Catholics please feel free to correct me if I have misrepresented you - it was not deliberate)
Yes. That's exactly what it does which is why the Scriptures make no mention of it, the Apostles never taught it, it was unheard of in the first centuries of the Christian churches, it evolved from pagan religions and is why the Orthodox never accepted it.
Agree - If anyone’s Word is His Bond, it’s God...
“Purgatory does not exist.”
I have been a follower of Dr. Charles Stanley for many years. Every once in awhile, during one of his sermons, he denies the existence of Purgatory and says either Heaven or Hell is the end of the road.
“I have been a follower of Dr. Charles Stanley for many years. Every once in awhile, during one of his sermons, he denies the existence of Purgatory and says either Heaven or Hell is the end of the road.”
The nerve of Dr. Stanley! Preaching from the Bible! Why, I never ...!
Not forgiving oneself after Jesus paid the price for all is called self-righteousness and is the worst insult to the perfect Blood shed for you.
If God, the Creator, can forgive you via Jesus perfect Blood, how can you disagree and say, “no, actually I’m going to beat myself up because I don’t really believe that Jesus payment is enough”? In this case, guilt before God is sin.
Think of the petulant boy pulling out his hair after being disciplined by a loving parent, saying “I’m no good, I hate myself” etc when the parent, like the Father in the parable of the Prodigal, wrapped his arms around him and restored him to everything he wasted? The parent wants the child to move on, not focus on the past indiscipline.
Life more abundantly, and free from guilt as if we have never sinned. All paid for, past present and future, now go walk out your salvation, do good and walk blamelessly before God ( if you fall down, get back up).
As He is, so are we in this world.
No. The son simply wanted a better quality of life. He said “even my Father’s servants have bread and enough, I could get hired on and live better than I am”. The son only wanted to return for selfish motives. The father demonstrated the moral of the story- He is the main character, the son, well, he is just like everyone who wants a better situation. The Father provided all of the assets, mainly love and complete forgiveness; if he was a poor man, he would have given the son the same, minus the wealth. God is not poor, but mainly he loves even the unrepentant ( repent means to change one’s mind) and bestow on us all of His treasures as well.
If you are saved by the Blood of the Lamb, (washes whiter than snow) then you are clean, A saved person wears the robe of Righteousness given to him by the Father, who sees only the perfectness of His Son by virtue of the free gift of salvation.
As long as you are focused on yourself, you are of no or little use to the Father. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
Your statement includes an awful lot of “I’s” in it. Get off that self focus and look to Jesus, the author and finisher of our salvation.
What yo must do is accept full the free gift, it s not of works lest any man boast....
Exactly historically correct.
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