WHY "IN LIKE MANNER" OF ACTS 1 DOES NOT PREDICT A BODILY RETURN OF CHRIST

Prophecy Questions Blog ^ | June 15, 2017 | Charles Meek

[grumpa]

“And when He had said these things, as they were looking on, He was taken up [Greek EPAIRO], and a CLOUD received Him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as He went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven?’ This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come IN LIKE MANNER [Greek HOS TROPOS] as you saw him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9-11)

This passage is one that futurists hold up to preterists to show that the Second Coming has not yet happened. “What,“ they say, “are you nuts? If Jesus had come in AD 70, everyone would have seen Him.”

As I began studying eschatology seriously over 15 years ago, it became increasingly obvious that my futurist assumptions about the last days and Second Coming could not hold up to the test of Scripture. But my passion is to teach what the Bible teaches, even if it conflicts with my presuppositions or denominational traditions.

I considered every passage in the Old and New Testaments about eschatology and concluded that the popular views are mostly regurgitations from denominational echo chambers, rather than from Scripture. My previous assumptions radically failed to consider Old Testament apocalyptic language, as well as the over 100 prophetic imminence statements in the New Testament. The preterist arguments persuaded me that Jesus was never claimed to return in his physical body, but rather in divine judgment just like Yahweh in the Old Testament. I became convinced that the preterist view is the only view of eschatology that could hold up to Scripture.

In case you are not familiar with the preterist view, there are dozens of passages that clearly teach that the culmination of the biblical “last days” and the “Second Coming” would happen while some of those living in the first century were still alive. Preterists believe that Jesus and the biblical writers were telling the truth about the timing of these things, and that these passages were fulfilled by Jesus’ non-bodily PRESENCE IN JUDGMENT against Old Covenant Israel in AD 70.

As I continued to study, I considered every objection I could find against the preterist view. I now see that my own previous objections as a futurist were grounded in ignorance, presupposition, and wishful thinking. Looking back, it still amazes me what hoops I went through to explain away, especially, the imminence passages. Wanting to cling to the popular views of prophecy, I had become skilled at Scripture-twisting.

Indeed, at first glance, it seems clear in Acts 1:9-11 that Jesus was predicted to return to earth literally, bodily—in (or on) a literal cloud. Unlike almost all other Second Coming passages, there is no time-constraint on its fulfillment, so it could still be a future event. However, to properly interpret this passage we must reconcile it with other passages about the Parousia (“Second Coming”). Let me offer ten points of exegesis of this passage about why it does not predict a literal, bodily Second Coming. . . .

In this article, I describe why the futurist view fails on critical analysis:

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=D3BD424B0B25B83F!16252&ithint=file%2cdocx&app=Word&authkey=!AO7aCIxpe1YGP6Q

[nonsporting]

It's as plain as it gets.

I'll repeat it, unless you missed it:

And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

Pretty plain.

See also Luke 21:27, Mark 13:26, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 14:14. Jesus comes in clouds/on clouds, in the same "cloud borne" manner as he left. And every eye shall see him (Revelation 1:7). No secret raptures.

Crack open your bible. Read it. Put away your unbiblical theories.

[Ezekiel]

I had already noted that Elijah appeared not only as John, but as himself - Elijah - in the Transfiguration.

Part of the pattern. All the text is true.

The established doctrines are what fight against the text. Why any ‘rapture’ doctrine was mentioned couldn’t have been due to anything I said.

[webstersII]

Your reference to the importance of 2,000 has nothing to do with the prophecies of the End Times.

[Big Red Badger]

Hmmmm,,,

Strange...not sure where I got that.

[Big Red Badger]

I spent a couple of days at the
Arches Hotel back in 1995.
It’s a prominent landmark on the Mount of Olives and stumbled about Jerusalem
a total of 10 days.
A Bible in one hand and books about
Prophecy in the other...

The river thingy ...
Gives me something to research

Thanks!

[delchiante]

quote-Your reference to the importance of 2,000 has nothing to do with the prophecies of the End Times.

You are free to believe that.

There are lots of people who don’t see Spiritual Israel is being led through a spiritual wilderness for about 40 years (rather 40 x 50 jubilees=2000 years ) just like physical Israel was led through the wilderness for 40 years.
They’d be blessed to see it.

Lot of hints in scripture of where we are on His prophetic timekeeping. Even His Creation declares where we are.. most people are ignorant of that, too.

But right now, we aren’t in a ‘light’ period of time.
But a period of ‘light’ is coming. It was predicted in the Old Testament, too.. in a way that can’t be seen without His help.

And a return of the Lion of Judah is predicted.. even in His Creation.

For the last 2,000 years websters, man was been dying in the wilderness. even those who are heirs to the Kingdom. dying before reaching the Promised land.

It’s like that was predicted way back when physical Israel and Moses was going through their wilderness- a time of being set free, from their bondage of slavery, by the blood of the lamb. a time where eventually, Joshua the Son of Life led them to the Promised Land- Maybe not enough people know the Lamb’s english name is Joshua..

That might explain the about 2,000 swine years we’ve been experiencing..

you are free to think ‘2,000’ has nothing to do with end times or His prophetic timekeeping..

[RetiredArmy]

Go away.

[Tax-chick]

Go mail a bear.

[boatbums]

Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.

Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. (II Peter 3)

[IWONDR]

Luke 22:42 [KJV] “Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”

please clarify to whom Christ is asking that this burden be taken from Him, but then accepts His mission and says not my will but thine be done? is Christ talking to himself here, or to God the Father? according to the Nicaean creed wouldn’t Christ be talking to Himself? i am confused.

[IWONDR]

“6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.”

if God the Father and Christ are one, how does Christ sit at the right hand of God? still confused.

[Elsie]

True believers in Christ need not see him in the flesh ,,, they know and feel his presence in their life every day .

Sounds Scriptural...

John 20:26-29

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them.

Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28 Thomas said to him, "My LORD and my God!"

29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

[Elsie]

Strange...not sure where I got that.

Don't feel bad; as we ALL have bits and pieces of information stuck in our heads that we are absolutely sure is found in the bible.

As a teacher; I've found it is much easier to teach what is in the bible, than to UNTEACH what AIN'T!!

[Elsie]

I spent a couple of days at the
Arches Hotel back in 1995.

This place??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Arches_Hotel

[Elsie]

I spent a couple of days at the Arches Hotel back in 1995.

While reading the first sentence; I thought you stayed somewhere around Moab, Utah.

But the second one corrected that thought!

If you are in Utah, you'll most likely find a Book of MORMON in the hotel nightstand.

All kinds of things are in it; but not much LDS doctrine at all.

(Which is strange for a book that has been claimed to contain "The Fullness of the Gospel".)

[Elsie]

according to the Nicaean creed wouldn’t Christ be talking to Himself?

Beats me.

Just to WHAT in the NC are you referring?

[Elsie]

if God the Father and Christ are one, how does Christ sit at the right hand of God?

Perhaps the terminology of a 'right hand man' needs to explained to you.

---

 

Trinity:

 

found in the Book of MORMON        

Book of Mormon:

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

...and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

...doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

...praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

...power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son--And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, (Mosiah 15:3-5)

...of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2:8)

"Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15)

"And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." (3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36)

 

 

[Elsie]

I can probably post more later; but today I’m running late and have a astral plane to catch.

[Big Red Badger]

Yes
That is the place.
Camel Rides on the front lawn and
Olive Trees all around.

[StormPrepper]

BTW the Nicene Creed is one of the most brilliant summaries of Christian beliefs ever composed, far surpassing the babblings of some nineteenth-century hack from rural New York.

It was created by the devil. It's an abomination in the eyes of God.

It's part of the false churches Christ and Paul warned about.

This is the eternal law of heaven:
Amos 8
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

God always reveals His will through the prophets. The Nicene creed did not come from a prophet. Therefore it didn't come from God. And man can't dictate doctrine or anything to God. All doctrine and knowledge comes only one direction, God to man. God will never allow man to dictate anything to Him.

Therefore, the Nicene creed is worthless in the eyes of God.