Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The oldest known Marian prayer is from Egypt
Aletelia ^ | April 28, 2017 | Philip Kosloski

Posted on 04/29/2017 8:02:13 AM PDT by NYer

The "Sub tuum praesidium" was originally used in an ancient Coptic liturgy

As we pray for the success of Pope Francis’ trip to Egypt this weekend, a perfect prayer to use is the oldest known Marian prayer, which in fact, traces back to the pope’s host country.

The oldest known Marian prayer is found on an ancient Egyptian papyrus dating from around the year 250. Today known in the Church as the Sub tuum praesidium, the prayer is believed to have been part of the Coptic Vespers liturgy during the Christmas season.

Read more: Saint Mark: Father of Coptic Christianity

 

 

The original prayer was written in Greek and according to Roseanne Sullivan, “The prayer is addressed to Our Lady using the Greek word Θεοτόκος, which is an adjectival form of Θεοφόρος (Theotokos, or God-bearer) and is more properly translated as ‘she whose offspring is God.'” This helps to prove that the early Christians were already familiar with the word “Theotokos” well before the Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus ratified its usage.

Below can be found the original Greek text from the papyrus, along with an English translation as listed on the New Liturgical Movement website:

 

On the papyrus, we can read:
.ΠΟ
ΕΥCΠΑ
ΚΑΤΑΦΕ
ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕΤ
ΙΚΕCΙΑCΜΗΠΑ
ΕΙΔΗCΕΜΠΕΡΙCTAC
AΛΛΕΚΚΙΝΔΥΝΟΥ
…ΡΥCΑΙΗΜΑC
MONH
…HEΥΛΟΓ
And an English translation could be:
Under your
mercy
we take refuge,
Mother of God! Our
prayers, do not despise
in necessities,
but from the danger
deliver us,
only pure,
only blessed.

 

More commonly the prayer is translated:

Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.

Several centuries later a Latin prayer was developed and is more widely known in the Roman Catholic Church:

Latin Text 
Sub tuum praesidium
confugimus,
Sancta Dei Genetrix.
Nostras deprecationes ne despicias
in necessitatibus nostris,
sed a periculis cunctis
libera nos semper,
Virgo gloriosa et benedicta
English Text
We fly to Thy protection,
O Holy Mother of God;
Do not despise our petitions
in our necessities,
but deliver us always
from all dangers,
O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen.

 

The prayer is currently part of the Byzantine, Roman and Ambrosian rites in the Catholic Church and is used specifically as a Marian antiphon after the conclusion of Compline outside of Lent (in the older form of the Roman breviary). It is also a common prayer that has stood the test of time and is a favorite of many Christians, and is the root of the popular devotional prayer, the Memorare.

 


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Orthodox Christian; Prayer
KEYWORDS: christendom; churchhistory; cultofisis; egypt; greek; isis; isisworship
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 621-624 next last
To: aMorePerfectUnion

You didn’t answer my question.


41 posted on 04/29/2017 12:58:10 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod (To restore all things in Christ. ~~~~ Appeasing evil is cowardice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: BlessedBeGod
"You didn’t answer my question."

Christ answered questions with a question 29 times in Scripture.

I did the same.

42 posted on 04/29/2017 1:06:02 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Fantasywriter
Jesus was of course always honest, but he usually spoke in parables when he was teaching in public, and he uses quite a few metaphors in that chapter, building on the theme of water and spirit that John had been developing in several previous chapters. The Lord expects us to ponder his words, as his mother did, and as the Bereans did.

Jesus did contrast physical-centered worship with spiritual-centered worship in the chapter we're discussing, but he did not go on to state, "Therefore, Rome isn't important for the plan of salvation." He was specifically addressing a dispute between the Samaritans and Jews about where the proper center of physical worship was, and if you notice, he sided with the Jews in recognizing the importance of Mount Zion over Mount Gezirim ("we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews"), so he did not teach physical location was irrelevant under the old dispensation. Nor did he say it was irrelevant under the new dispensation. What he said was, "God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth." He did not say that this meant his worshippers should disregard the role physical location played in the plan of salvation. What he was getting at becomes more apparent later in John when he talks about sending the Holy Spirit and about "other sheep that are not of this sheep pen", i.e., the evangelization of the Gentiles and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles. Rome became the epicenter of the evangelization of the Gentiles, which is one of the themes of Acts and Revelation and is alluded to other books.

43 posted on 04/29/2017 1:15:39 PM PDT by Fedora
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: ZULU

I agree, that’s why I’m trying to disagree respectfully with my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am on my way to church soon, so if I don’t reply to anyone right away, I will check back later. Meanwhile, I will be praying for everyone while I’m out. May the peace of Christ be with you.


44 posted on 04/29/2017 1:17:27 PM PDT by Fedora
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Fedora

Thank you for your reply. It’s certainly true that Jesus taught in parables. However, when his disciples didn’t understand a parable, He carefully and fully explained the meaning to them—and by extension to us.

The present case isn’t like that. I.e.: after they left Samaria, the disciples didn’t ask what Jesus had meant during His two days of teaching there. In fact, nowhere are Jesus’ words elaborated on. This is because they aren’t tricky or deceptive. He was asked about the proper physical locus for worship, and He gave a crystal clear answer.

Namely, ‘Not here or there, but from now on in spirit and truth.’

Worship under the Mosaic Law centered in Jerusalem. Jesus nailed the Law to the cross, and gave us a New Covenant. Having fulfilled the legalism of the Mosaic Law, Jesus now gives us relationship centered worship: namely, God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.’

Jesus was too clear and honest in His teaching to mislead us. The Samaritan woman’s question concerned a physical locus for worship. Jesus explained that with the coming of the Messiah, location would be superceded by the state of the heart. This is consistent with all His other teachings. The New Covenant is a shift away from legalism and a shift toward spirit and truth. Our job is to heed His words, not to change them—and certainly not to add to them.


45 posted on 04/29/2017 1:55:55 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Fedora

Christ be with youm


46 posted on 04/29/2017 2:35:31 PM PDT by ZULU (DUMP THAT POS PAUL RYAN!! HE KILLED OBAMACARE REPEAL AND WILL KILL TAX REFORM!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Fedora
The oldest known Marian prayer—except for Luke 1:28. And Luke 1:42. Etc.

Except neither of those are prayers to Mary.

28And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” Luke 1:28 NASB

42And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! Luke 1:42 NASB

47 posted on 04/29/2017 4:45:08 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: nobamanomore
This is a serious question. Why do we get overrun with protestants in an obviously Catholic thread?

When we see the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church some of us feel compelled to post the correct the errors.

48 posted on 04/29/2017 4:51:01 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

And notice that Catholics are usually the first to resort to profanity on these threads?


49 posted on 04/29/2017 4:53:53 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone

Best not to come to these threads.


50 posted on 04/29/2017 4:59:58 PM PDT by Biggirl ("One Lord, one faith, one baptism5" - Ephesians 4:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl
Best not to come to these threads.

Best not to post in an open forum if the Catholic cannot stand the scrutiny of their teachings.

51 posted on 04/29/2017 5:05:06 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone

Where do you think the “Hail Mary” comes from?


52 posted on 04/29/2017 5:07:19 PM PDT by Fedora
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone

So what are your qualifications for interpreting the true teachings of the church?

See 2 Peter 1:20


53 posted on 04/29/2017 5:10:32 PM PDT by nobamanomore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Fedora
Where do you think the “Hail Mary” come from?

A Roman Catholic distortion of the NT.

54 posted on 04/29/2017 5:17:09 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: nobamanomore
So what are your qualifications for interpreting the true teachings of the church?

The context of the passage you cite does not fit your question.

19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. 2 Peter 1:20 NASB

55 posted on 04/29/2017 5:19:26 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Fedora
Where do you think the “Hail Mary” comes from?

Either
A. It's a football term to describe a long desperate pass downfield.
B. In the Biblical times people were greeted with a "Hail" (as in hello). They would have greeted you with a "Hail Fedora".

56 posted on 04/29/2017 5:24:04 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Don't be a pessimist, be an optometrist.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Yes, when I saw the headline I wondered if it was in reference to the “Memorare”.


57 posted on 04/29/2017 5:26:33 PM PDT by Let's Roll ("You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality" -- Ayn Rand)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Fedora
>>OR the thought that Mary was never never referred to as “Mother of God” and that the Disciples >>would have dismissed that as blasphemy.

Fedora:
"When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

As for Egypt being "into paganism", Egypt was the center of one of the largest Jewish communities outside Israel, and Mark founded the church of Alexandria there.


Good points; in addition, when Elizabeth said "the mother of my Lord" what does "my Lord" really mean ?

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John, Catholic chapter twenty, Protestant verse twenty eight,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

58 posted on 04/29/2017 5:48:50 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: nobamanomore
Also, it really amuses me when a protestant is discounting something that happened AD200-300 because it’s so far removed from the time of the apostles. It’s only another 1250 years or so until the protestant churches arrived.

Historicity is a very strong argument against Protestantism; for Protestantism to be valid one must admit that the church Jesus built failed, failed for most of history, and then the Protestant replica churches failed as well.
59 posted on 04/29/2017 6:06:32 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_1981

one must admit that the church Jesus built failed,


If one read the Bible one would learn that the first generation churches failed and Jesus told them to REPENT and go back to their first love. See the first few chapters of Revelation.


60 posted on 04/29/2017 6:09:17 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 621-624 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson