Posted on 04/29/2017 8:02:13 AM PDT by NYer
As we pray for the success of Pope Francis’ trip to Egypt this weekend, a perfect prayer to use is the oldest known Marian prayer, which in fact, traces back to the pope’s host country.
The oldest known Marian prayer is found on an ancient Egyptian papyrus dating from around the year 250. Today known in the Church as the Sub tuum praesidium, the prayer is believed to have been part of the Coptic Vespers liturgy during the Christmas season.
The original prayer was written in Greek and according to Roseanne Sullivan, “The prayer is addressed to Our Lady using the Greek word Θεοτόκος, which is an adjectival form of Θεοφόρος (Theotokos, or God-bearer) and is more properly translated as ‘she whose offspring is God.'” This helps to prove that the early Christians were already familiar with the word “Theotokos” well before the Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus ratified its usage.
Below can be found the original Greek text from the papyrus, along with an English translation as listed on the New Liturgical Movement website:
| On the papyrus, we can read: .ΠΟ ΕΥCΠΑ ΚΑΤΑΦΕ ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕΤ ΙΚΕCΙΑCΜΗΠΑ ΕΙΔΗCΕΜΠΕΡΙCTAC AΛΛΕΚΚΙΝΔΥΝΟΥ …ΡΥCΑΙΗΜΑC MONH …HEΥΛΟΓ |
And an English translation could be: Under your mercy we take refuge, Mother of God! Our prayers, do not despise in necessities, but from the danger deliver us, only pure, only blessed. |
More commonly the prayer is translated:
Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Several centuries later a Latin prayer was developed and is more widely known in the Roman Catholic Church:
| Latin Text Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, Sancta Dei Genetrix. Nostras deprecationes ne despicias in necessitatibus nostris, sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper, Virgo gloriosa et benedicta |
English Text We fly to Thy protection, O Holy Mother of God; Do not despise our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers, O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen. |
The prayer is currently part of the Byzantine, Roman and Ambrosian rites in the Catholic Church and is used specifically as a Marian antiphon after the conclusion of Compline outside of Lent (in the older form of the Roman breviary). It is also a common prayer that has stood the test of time and is a favorite of many Christians, and is the root of the popular devotional prayer, the Memorare.
You didn’t answer my question.
Christ answered questions with a question 29 times in Scripture.
I did the same.
Jesus did contrast physical-centered worship with spiritual-centered worship in the chapter we're discussing, but he did not go on to state, "Therefore, Rome isn't important for the plan of salvation." He was specifically addressing a dispute between the Samaritans and Jews about where the proper center of physical worship was, and if you notice, he sided with the Jews in recognizing the importance of Mount Zion over Mount Gezirim ("we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews"), so he did not teach physical location was irrelevant under the old dispensation. Nor did he say it was irrelevant under the new dispensation. What he said was, "God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth." He did not say that this meant his worshippers should disregard the role physical location played in the plan of salvation. What he was getting at becomes more apparent later in John when he talks about sending the Holy Spirit and about "other sheep that are not of this sheep pen", i.e., the evangelization of the Gentiles and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles. Rome became the epicenter of the evangelization of the Gentiles, which is one of the themes of Acts and Revelation and is alluded to other books.
I agree, that’s why I’m trying to disagree respectfully with my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am on my way to church soon, so if I don’t reply to anyone right away, I will check back later. Meanwhile, I will be praying for everyone while I’m out. May the peace of Christ be with you.
Thank you for your reply. It’s certainly true that Jesus taught in parables. However, when his disciples didn’t understand a parable, He carefully and fully explained the meaning to them—and by extension to us.
The present case isn’t like that. I.e.: after they left Samaria, the disciples didn’t ask what Jesus had meant during His two days of teaching there. In fact, nowhere are Jesus’ words elaborated on. This is because they aren’t tricky or deceptive. He was asked about the proper physical locus for worship, and He gave a crystal clear answer.
Namely, ‘Not here or there, but from now on in spirit and truth.’
Worship under the Mosaic Law centered in Jerusalem. Jesus nailed the Law to the cross, and gave us a New Covenant. Having fulfilled the legalism of the Mosaic Law, Jesus now gives us relationship centered worship: namely, God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.’
Jesus was too clear and honest in His teaching to mislead us. The Samaritan woman’s question concerned a physical locus for worship. Jesus explained that with the coming of the Messiah, location would be superceded by the state of the heart. This is consistent with all His other teachings. The New Covenant is a shift away from legalism and a shift toward spirit and truth. Our job is to heed His words, not to change them—and certainly not to add to them.
Christ be with youm
Except neither of those are prayers to Mary.
28And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” Luke 1:28 NASB
42And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! Luke 1:42 NASB
When we see the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church some of us feel compelled to post the correct the errors.
And notice that Catholics are usually the first to resort to profanity on these threads?
Best not to come to these threads.
Best not to post in an open forum if the Catholic cannot stand the scrutiny of their teachings.
Where do you think the “Hail Mary” comes from?
So what are your qualifications for interpreting the true teachings of the church?
See 2 Peter 1:20
A Roman Catholic distortion of the NT.
The context of the passage you cite does not fit your question.
19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. 2 Peter 1:20 NASB
Either
A. It's a football term to describe a long desperate pass downfield.
B. In the Biblical times people were greeted with a "Hail" (as in hello). They would have greeted you with a "Hail Fedora".
Yes, when I saw the headline I wondered if it was in reference to the “Memorare”.
one must admit that the church Jesus built failed,
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