Theologian: Shared Communion With Protestants Would be Blasphemy and Sacrilege

National Catholic Register ^ | January 2, 2017 | Edward Pentin

[BlessedBeGod]

...If the Church were to change its rules on shared Eucharistic Communion it would “go against Revelation and the Magisterium”, leading Christians to “commit blasphemy and sacrilege,” an Italian theologian has warned.

Drawing on the Church’s teaching based on Sacred Scripture and Tradition, Msgr. Nicola Bux, a former consulter to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stressed that non-Catholic Christians must have undertaken baptism and confirmation in the Catholic Church, and repented of grave sin through sacramental confession, in order to be able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist.

Msgr. Bux was responding to the Register about concerns that elements of the current pontificate might be sympathetic of a form of “open Communion” proposed by the German Protestant theologian, Jürgen Moltmann.

The concerns have arisen primarily due to the Holy Father’s own comments on Holy Communion and Lutherans, his apparent support for some remarried divorcees to receive Holy Communion, and how others have used his frequently repeated maxim about the Eucharist: that it is “not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.”

The debate specifically over intercommunion with Christian denominations follows recent remarks by Cardinal Walter Kasper who, in a Dec. 10 interview with Avvenire, said he hopes Pope Francis’ next declaration will open the way for intercommunion with other denominations “in special cases.”

The German theologian said shared Eucharistic communion is just a matter of time, and that the Pope’s recent participation in the Reformation commemoration in Lund has given “a new thrust” to the “ecumenical process.”

Pope Francis has often expressed his admiration for Cardinal Kasper’s theology whose thinking has significantly influenced…the priorities of this pontificate, particularly on the Eucharist.

For Moltmann, Holy Communion is “the Lord's supper, not something organized by a church or a denomination”...

[daniel1212]

if it pleases you, do some research on the Church over her first 1,500 years as she (the Church) condemned (as you do) the writers of the glories of Mary of which we read from the pen of numerous saints.

Why? Try to get it thru your head that it is only what Scripture says that is supremely deterministic of Truth, not uninspired men.

Oh, yea, I would also like to see which saints wrote the quotes on the glories of Mary which you so kindly presented

They are ,

, so you can also include where the Church historically condemned them for so writing, or at least if any of those quotes were gathered from the first 1,500 years of the Church.

again, try to get it into your head that church sanction does not determine Truth.

[metmom]

Sorry; but the early church did give her ANY 'due'. It, in fact, ignored her!

Even the Holy spirit only referred to her as *mother of Jesus*.

He hadn't even gotten the message yet that she was His mom, too.

Good thing the Catholic church came along and corrected His oversight and set things right for Him.

Where would God be without the Catholic church to advise Him.

Heck, the don't even think the Holy Spirit guides their church.

I'm still trying to figure out how the Catholic church is supposed to be protected from error in faith or morals.

The college of cardinals maybe? The same group that put Francis in power?

[metmom]

BUSTED!

[metmom]

That is, if d1212 would present the sources for the beautiful quotes re. the glories of Mary that he shared, many would likely be sources linked to valid Christianity, and not in conflict with anything in the Holy Scriptures, but rather with the Ricidulants’ faulty interpretation of them.

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

You cannot worship God by worshiping a created being other than Him.

Same as you can not be at the same time praying to Him when you are praying to another of His created beings.

[metmom]

I asked first.

Your contention is that He only does it sometimes.

Cite it and prove it.

[Elsie]

...I would like to see your sources for the worship of Mary...

Sorry; bigboy; but you brought it up.

Produce or be marginalized.

[Elsie]

That is, if d1212 would present the sources for the beautiful quotes re. the glories of Mary that he shared, many would likely be sources linked to valid Christianity, and not in conflict with anything in the Holy Scriptures, but rather with the Ricidulants’ faulty interpretation of them.

I hear ya, son!

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Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.

Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED. 

Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

(Leo XIII: Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895) — [p. 19, no. 44]

Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

She says, "He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord.   "Qui me invenerit, inveniet vitam, et hauriet salutem a Domino."

Listen," exclaims St. Bonaventure on these words, "listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation."  "Audite qui ingredi cupitis regnum Dei: Virginem Mariam honorate, et invenietis vitam et salutem perpetuam."-psalt. B.V.ps.48.

 

Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven. Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

 

“The Catholic Church has always and with justice put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God.”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Supreme Apostolatus, September 1, 1883.) — [p. 32, no. 104]

“... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae, September 12, 1897.) [p. 68; no. 302]

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"Only She Can Help You"
by Father Nicholas Gruner, S.T.L., S.T.D. (Cand.)
In this letter introducing The Fatima Crusader Issue 38, Father Gruner discusses the growing lies and deception about Russia's errors and the consecration of that nation. He also reminds us that, while it is urgent that we be informed about and fight for Our Lady's cause, we must ask for Her help and intercession.

In the Fatima sanctuary, at the exact spot where Our Lady appeared, Father Gruner pays homage to Her while touching the original statue of Fatima. Father Gruner was recently graced with this rare opportunity since normally this sacred image is always protected by a glass covering which completely surrounds it all day long.

Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
In this article taken from The Glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsus explains that there are countless souls in Heaven who are there now only because Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them there. If a soul persists in true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, She will certainly lead that soul to Heaven.

 

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The Rosary
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is greatly important that Our Lady insisted on the Rosary. When at Fatima She spoke of the salvation of sinners, of the ruin of souls in hell, of wars and peace, and of the future of our age. Our Lady indicated and recommended the Rosary as the prayer that saves, that brings peace, that preserves the faith.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is truly a treasure to have a strong devotion to Our Lady, for it is She who unites us to Jesus and brings us to Heaven, as this article explains.

Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.

The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote “The Glories of Mary” in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church.  In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due.  She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation.  It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven.  And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church.  De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.

 

Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.

At Fatima, Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.

Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.

I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.

 

 Jesus and Mary — Our Hope

It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.

No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.

 

http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp

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"Blessed is he whose interior offers the Blessed Virgin Mary a place of repose." Devotion towards the Blessed Virgin remains in all who are the inheritance of Our Lord; that is to say, in all who will praise Him eternally in Heaven.

O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."

...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate." 

St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23 Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24 St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25 On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26

 23.  "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."—Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
 24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
 25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
 26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp 

[Elsie]

You worship scripture more than I do Mary and have actually made a golden calf out of it. Which is more desperation. While unlike Mary, God does say "thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name," (Psalms 138:2) and unlike Mary the Holy Spirit inspired 176 verses in one Psalm alone...

Mary (called "Maryam" in Arabic) has an entire chapter in the Quran named for her — the only chapter in the Quran named for a female figure. In fact, Mary is the only woman to be mentioned by name in the entire Quran: As noted in the new Study Quran, "other female figures are identified only by their relation to others, such as the wife of Adam and the mother of Moses, or by their title, such as the Queen of Sheba." Mary is mentioned more times in the Quran than in the entire New Testament.

 

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And remember Mary in the Book, when she withdrew from her family to an eastern place. And she veiled herself from them. Then We [God] sent unto her Our Spirit [the angel Gabriel], and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. She said, "I seek refuge from thee in the Compassionate [i.e., God], if you are reverent!" He said, "I am but a messenger of thy Lord, to bestow upon thee a pure boy."

She said, "How shall I have a boy when no man has touched me, nor have I been unchaste?" He said, "Thus shall it be. Thy Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me.’" And [it is thus] that We might make him a sign unto mankind, and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter decreed.

So she conceived him and withdrew with him to a place far off. And the pangs of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date palm. She said, "Would that I had died before this and was a thing forgotten, utterly forgotten!" So he called out to her from below her, "Grieve not! Thy Lord has placed a rivulet beneath thee. And shake toward thyself the trunk of the date palm; fresh, ripe dates shall fall upon thee. So eat and drink and cool thine eye. And if thou seest any human being, say, ‘Verily I have vowed a fast unto the Compassionate, so I shall not speak this day to any man.’"

Then she came with him [the infant Jesus] unto her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary! Thou hast brought an amazing thing! O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not an evil man, nor was thy mother unchaste." Then she pointed to him [Jesus]. They said, "How shall we speak to one who is yet a child in the cradle?"

He [Jesus] said, "Truly I am a servant of God. He has given me the Book and made me a prophet. He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I live, and [has made me] dutiful toward my mother. And He has not made me domineering, wretched. Peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I am raised alive!"

 

 

I can see where Rome gets its ideas from!

[Elsie]

Even the Holy spirit only referred to her as *mother of Jesus*.

Even the ENTIRE BIBLE only refers to her as *mother of Jesus*.

[daniel1212]

When I was a Catholic, I worshipped Mary. I considered her to be like a goddess, second only to God, and worthy of worship. I am not saying they all did, but I did.

You mean that you actually used the work "latria" to describe what you were doing in engaging in latria in service to Mary, or other forms descriptive of worship?

Then it is true. You were an ignorant Catholic, a product of poor catechesis, who did not know how to play word games to absolve yourself of the guilt of idolatry. Fortunately, there are some Catholics here are schooled in that art, and hope that you would join their company of deception. Sadly i say, and may God grant them repentance unto life, and that we all flee from idolatry (which can be the dinner table or paycheck, no matter what word we use for it).

[ealgeone]

You worship scripture more than I do Mary and have actually made a golden calf out of it.

A simple way to examine this is to see what the Bible has to say about both as the Bible is the only agreed upon source.

The appeal to the ECFs fails due to their contradictory positions on the issues.

What accord are we to give to Mary? The Bible is clear...we will "count her blessed" as Luke recorded in 1:48. And that's as far as the Bible goes in any attribution to Mary.

What accord are we to give to the Bible...or another way to put it...God's word.

Your word I have treasured in my heart, That I may not sin against You. Psalm 119:11

I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart." Psalm 40:8

"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jeremiah 31:33

I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart." Psalm 40:8

The appeal to Scripture in the New Testament is well attested to as is the admonition to learn it.

You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:14-17

[Repent and Believe]

Unlike any of their contemporaries Elsie condemns Paul for referring to himself as their father, as well as the hundreds of well established saints for their love for the blessed mother of Jesus.

The Quran was written in numerous ways to steal ideas from the Bible and recombine them into a mishmash of other ideas. There is no surprise that names such as Abraham and Mary would be used by those vile theives and murderers.

Your proof is a vile and desperate attempt to destroy the good name of the many saints who have PROVEN their charity, wisdom, piety and love for Jesus Christ.

Your dangerous discussion has the potential of dissuading many Christians from studying the lives of established saints which Elsie has NOT done, and therefore can only doubt their worthiness out of Elsie’s own mind.

[MHGinTN]

And being the cultist, you don’t even realize you use the proof words that you are in a religion of works. Worthinerss? Work work work, strive to obtain ... and end up in Hell for rejecting the perfect Grace of God which you may in no way earn. No matter how good you get, you will never merit God’s Grace, because if you could it would not be Grace. Get it? Worthiness is empty spittle.

[Repent and Believe]

“You cannot worship God by worshiping (sic) a created being other than Him.”

Oh, yes I can worship God by worshipping His mother Mary.

“Same as you can not be at the same time praying to Him when you are praying to another of His created beings.”

Oh, yes I can pray to God by praying to His mother Mary.

[ealgeone]

Oh, yes I can worship God by worshipping His mother Mary.

However, we are not to worship the created...only the Creator.

And to be clear...God does not have a mother.

[Repent and Believe]

“You cannot worship God by worshiping (sic) a created being other than Him.”

Oh, yes I can worship God by worshipping His mother Mary.

“Same as you can not be at the same time praying to Him when you are praying to another of His created beings.”

Oh, yes I can pray to God by praying to His mother Mary.

[MHGinTN]

You are a fool, so perhaps God will wink at your idiocy.

[Mark17]

Then it is true. You were an ignorant Catholic, a product of poor catechesis, who did not know how to play word games to absolve yourself of the guilt of idolatry. Fortunately, there are some Catholics here are schooled in that art, and hope that you would join their company of deception.

Yea, I guess I was a pretty ignorant catholic, as were all the kids I went to catholic school with. We were at the mercy of equally ignorant priests and nuns.
I was scared to death, that God was going to zap me, so I asked a priest how to deal with it. He said just don't commit any mortal sins, and I would be OK. This did little to calm my spirit, because I enjoyed committing mortal sins. That's why I stopped going to communion.
Things are different now. I am no longer into idolatry. Life is better, but eternity is going to be even better than that. 👍

[ebb tide]

This did little to calm my spirit, because I enjoyed committing mortal sins.

That sounds demonic.

[Mark17]

That sounds demonic

It was, but I am no longer involved in that particular religion. When I was in that religion, I seemed powerless to avoid mortal sins, so I thought that if I couldn't stop committing mortal sins, I might as well enjoy it. I know it's weird, but I don't do it that way anymore.