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Evangelical Protestants say the Bible decides, but this begs the question when the two warring parties agree that the Bible is the final authority. They eventually split because they can’t agree about what the Bible actually teaches. I had moved away from the Protestant understanding that Scripture is the only authority, and as an Anglican, believed that authority rested in Scripture, tradition, and reason.
1 posted on 08/14/2016 2:49:24 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM; NYer; Salvation

A good article worth the read and discussion.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/how-do-we-know-it%E2%80%99s-the-true-church

Some Churches may exercise some of the twelve traits, but only the Catholic Church is able to field all twelve as a foundation for decision-making. When the Catholic Church pronounces on any difficult question, the response is historical, but up to date. It is based on objective principles but applies to specific needs. The Church’s authority transcends space and time, but it is relevant to a particular place and time. The response will be intellectually profound, but expressed in a way that is simple enough for anyone to apply. Finally, it will express truths that are embedded in the human experience, but spring from divine inspiration.

This authority works infallibly through the active ministry of the whole Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that it is Christ who is infallible, and he grants a measure of his infallibility to his body, the Church. That infallibility is worked out through these twelve traits, but it is expressed most majestically and fully through Christ’s minister of infallibility: one person—the Rock on which the Church is built, Peter and his successors.

Fr. Dwight Longenecker is an American who has spent most of his life living and working in England. Fr. Dwight was brought up in an Evangelical home in Pennsylvania. After graduating from the fundamentalist Bob Jones University with a degree in Speech and English, he went...
more...


2 posted on 08/14/2016 2:51:26 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM
The national, cultural, and chronological identities of other ecclesial bodies limit their ability to speak with a universal voice.

The Church, supposedly governed from the Vatican, is hardly a universal one. In creating a new religion based not on God, but on humanist fickleness, all tenets and rubrics were tossed out the window including the language that bound all 'Roman Catholic' Churches together. That, of course, was Latin.

Pointing out the fallacies of the Eastern Orthodox Churches is rather like the people living in glass houses tossing rocks at others.

The fact is that an entirely new religion was created due to and subsequent to Vatican II and those 'popes' following that heresy will have a rough time explaining to their Maker the necessity for allowing change after change after change to be enacted.

3 posted on 08/14/2016 3:00:57 PM PDT by HomerBohn (Liberals and Slinkys: Good for nothing but make you smile as you shove them down the stairs.)
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To: ADSUM

Excellent article. Thank you for posting it.


4 posted on 08/14/2016 3:07:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ADSUM

Conservative and active practicing Roman Catholic here. Fr. Dwight Longenecker has nothing to teach me and I have no use for what this Trump-bashing POS has to say.


6 posted on 08/14/2016 3:29:29 PM PDT by AC Beach Patrol
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To: ADSUM

With Popes like Francis, we might lose our grasp on that claim.


7 posted on 08/14/2016 3:43:35 PM PDT by Vaquero ( Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: ADSUM

Catholicism has a real problem, a number of people, including some Catholics, are not even sure this Pope is not a fake Pope.
Is the Pope Catholic? used to be used as a rhetorical, of course.
It’s not rhetorical anymore.
Is the Pope Catholic?


8 posted on 08/14/2016 3:53:15 PM PDT by Lurkinanloomin (Know Islam, No Peace - No Islam , Know Peace)
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To: ADSUM

Jesus condemned tradition and the Bible clearly teaches us to not rely on our own understanding but to trust in God for all things.


9 posted on 08/14/2016 3:53:38 PM PDT by LukeL
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To: ADSUM

Good Article and info, Thanks!


10 posted on 08/14/2016 3:58:29 PM PDT by jafojeffsurf (Return to the Christendom, A Moral People, and Return to a Nation/s UNDER God!)
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To: ADSUM

Always amazing when a Roman Catholic posts an article claiming to be authoritative and proof, yet doesn’t include a single verse from the Bible to back up anything.

Then they high five each other about how good it is. This too, is telling.

All of the points are 100% made up and are simply an opinion of a former Anglican.


11 posted on 08/14/2016 4:00:14 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ADSUM

This is not a good article in that it misconstrues Protestantism, he writes from his experience rather than from what is true. It is also disinegenous to believe that there are not doctrinal differences/practices among local Catholic churches.


12 posted on 08/14/2016 4:01:11 PM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: ADSUM

Of course that would mean that Roman Catholics agree on everything, yet we see constant warring factions inside of Rome.


13 posted on 08/14/2016 4:08:22 PM PDT by Gamecock (There is always one more idiot than you counted on.)
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To: ADSUM

I don’t think that a “Church” per say is what people believe in....

If you look at a Church as your religion, you have missed what religion is all about...

First of all, God’s Word is in the Bible, not the ‘Church’...yes we hear the words there, but remember, Jesus didn’t have a ‘Church’, his ‘Church’ was on the side of a meadow, in a grove of trees, by a lake, crossing over paths as He talked...

Churches are buildings that are man made...My ‘church’ is where ever I am, walking down the street thinking about how beautiful the landscape is that God built, how when I stand by a lake, the beauty of the mountains, trees, birds, deer, and other animals that God made...

You don’t need a ‘Church’ to believe in God...


15 posted on 08/14/2016 4:11:46 PM PDT by HarleyLady27 ('THE FORCE AWAKENS!!!' Trump/Pence; Trump/Pence; Trump/Pence 100%)
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To: ADSUM
This is an interesting glimpse into the mind of someone who does not understand authority. Authority does not come from tradition, it does not come from history, certainly it is not adaptable, authority does not have to be objective, authority is not adaptable, it either is or isn't, authority is for sure universal but that precludes it being local, authority has nothing to do with education in either the source of the authority or the people to whom the authority applies, in my finite mind authority is not human, it is however divine though it may have a human voice. If authority is not divine it is not authority it is simply the mingling of scripture with human philosophy.

Fr. Dwight Longenecker has given us interesting thoughts but they are incompatible with authority. Authority comes from God and yes His designated servants. Just because a council does not like what God has put in place does not give them authority to change it. I suspect that most people would like women to be ordained to the priesthood but if God says no, then no amount of discussion can make the answer “Yes” come from God.

While the Protestant world at least most of it claims scripture as their authority there are so many interpretations of scripture that in only the rarest of cases can the scripture be claimed as authority. Only the persons serving in their divinely appointed positions can say that “the scripture says this”!

Either the Pope is the conduit to Heaven or he is not if he is then nothing any other group has to say really matters, if he is not then the same holds true, then we are just making it up as we go along.

28 posted on 08/14/2016 5:46:57 PM PDT by JAKraig (my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: ADSUM

Roman Catholic church has not been true since 1965 or so..


50 posted on 08/14/2016 8:55:48 PM PDT by JerryBlackwell (some animals are more equal than others)
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To: ADSUM
Evangelical Protestants say the Bible decides, but this begs the question when the two warring parties agree that the Bible is the final authority. They eventually split because they can’t agree about what the Bible actually teaches. I had moved away from the Protestant understanding that Scripture is the only authority, and as an Anglican, believed that authority rested in Scripture, tradition, and reason.

It would be wonderful if Catholic apologists stopped propping up straw men of false statements about those they oppose so they can knock them down and claim victory. FR Catholics bitterly complain about "Catholic-bashing" threads but celebrate those that bash Evangelical Protestants. Why is that?

There IS no question begging WRT the Holy Scriptures because they ARE Divinely-inspired and no other inventions of men can claim the same. Whatever "warring parties" argue over, it remains true that Scripture alone is THE authority. The Apostle Paul said he did not fail to deliver the "whole counsel of God". We can trust that the doctrines we must believe are provided to us in the Holy Spirit revealed writings. Truth doesn't change.

    The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. (The Westminster Confession of Faith: Chapter 1.6)

This does NOT discount the place of pastors and teachers that God has given to the local churches so that through Scripture they can be edified, corrected, taught doctrine, reproved and instructed in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. These leaders are to be in submission to the word of God. Whenever there were doctrinal disagreements in the past, they were settled by Scripture.

It is disingenuous for the author to present the Roman Catholic church as the "true" Church based on some imagined ancient authority seeing as there have been numerous splits and schisms, disagreements and wars long before the Reformation happened. Even a cursory read of the "early church fathers" shows that they often warred and fought over doctrine. Several fell into heresy and were later declared heretics yet you will still find their names listed as "saints" of the church. The Holy Spirit is who leads us to all the truth. Job's friend Elihu said it well:

    I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom. But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment. (Job 32:7-9)

52 posted on 08/14/2016 10:07:33 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: ADSUM

Who purchased the people who make up the assembly/gathering? When you take money to the store, who decides what you buy: you, or the items on the shelf? Jesus bought the people who make up the assembly at the price of His own blood. Shouldn’t He have the first and last word on who He bought?


57 posted on 08/15/2016 6:40:42 AM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: ADSUM; All
The final authority is not the Bible. The final authority is God and His prophets.

The Catholic church has no prophets.

Peter was the head of the Church when Jesus ascended. However, after Peter was killed, the people chose Linus I to be their leader. Linus was not a prophet, nor was he chosen by God.

The leadership of the Church did not go to Linus. It went to the one man that was chosen by God; John. John was an Apostle and was still alive when Linus claimed to be the leader of the church. And Jesus made this clear by visiting John and speaking to Him face to face.

John was a prophet and was given the vision which he wrote down in the Book of Revelation. The Lord Himself showed who was in authority after Peter.

The Lord never visited Linus nor gave him any visions or prophecies. Nor has he visited any pope since. When the people elevated Linus to lead their church, they in fact created a new church. It's not Christ's true Church. It never has been.

This is why the Catholic church deviated from the Lord's teachings so completely. This was the great falling away spoken of by the Lord.

Paul gives some insights into the false churches of the last days. He says that they "forbid to marry"... The Catholic church forbids their entire leadership to marry. This is what Paul saw in vision 2000 years ago.


61 posted on 08/15/2016 8:01:33 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: ADSUM
The context of tradition and reason can be warped just like Scripture. Scripture is warped due to the attempt at rationalizing what ever time you are living in while ignoring historiography/fundamental reasons why/the purpose. Again, tradition and reason follow this.

"I Am", does not change, and the purpose of our existence are the biggest "tells" of what Christianity is all about. In the end, God is God.
79 posted on 08/16/2016 3:23:26 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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