Posted on 06/10/2016 7:06:28 AM PDT by Salvation
I sometimes get questions about the remarkably long lives of the patriarchs who lived before the great flood. Consider some of their reported ages when they died:
How should we understand these references? There are many theories that have tried to explain the claimed longevity. Some propose a mathematical corrective, but this leads to other inconsistencies such as certain patriarchs apparently begetting children while still children themselves. Another theory is that the ages of the patriarchs are actually just indications of their influence or family line, but then things don’t add up chronologically when considering eras and family trees.
Personally, I think we need to take the stated ages of the patriarchs at face value and just accept it as a mystery: for some reason the ancient patriarchs lived far longer we do today. I cannot prove that the patriarchs actually lived that long, but neither is there strong evidence that they did not. Frankly, I have little stake in insisting that they did in fact live that long. I think it is best just to accept that they did.
Many scoff when I articulate this solution. They almost seem to be offended. The reply usually sounds something like this: “That’s crazy. There’s no way they lived that long. The texts must be wrong.” To which I generally reply, “Why do you think it’s crazy or impossible?” The answers usually range from the glib to the more serious, but here are some common ones:
So I think we’re back to where we started: just accepting the long life spans of the early patriarchs at face value.
There is perhaps a theological truth hidden in the shrinking lifespans over the course of time in the Old Testament. Scripture links sin and death. The day they ate of the forbidden fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Eve were warned that they would die (Gen 2:17). Yet they did not drop dead immediately. And although they died spiritually in an instant, the clock of death for their bodies wound down much later. As can be seen in the list of lifespans of the patriarchs (see above), as sin increased, lifespans dropped precipitously, especially after the flood.
Prior to the flood, lifespans remained in the vicinity of 900 years. Immediately afterward, they dropped by about a third (Noah and Shem only lived to be 600), and from there the numbers plummeted even further. Neither Abraham nor Moses even reached the age of 200, and by the time of King David, he would write, Our years are seventy, or eighty for those who are strong (Ps 90:10).
Scripture says, For the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Indeed they are, especially in terms of lifespan. Perhaps that’s why I’m not too anxious to try to disprove the long lifespans of the patriarchs. What we know theologically is borne out in our human experience: sin is life-destroying. And this truth is surely writ large in the declining lifespan of the human family.
Does this prove that Adam actually lived to be more than 900 years old? No. It only shows that declining lifespans are something we fittingly discover in a world of sin. Since God teaches that sin brings death, why should we be shocked that our lifespan has decreased from 900 to 85 years? It is what it is. It’s a sad truth that God warned us about. Thanks be to God our Father, who in Jesus now offers us eternal life if we will have faith and obey His Son!
How or even whether the patriarchs lived to be more than 900 years old is not clear. But what is theologically clear is that we don’t live that long today because of the collective effect of sin upon us.
Then wouldn't that call into question the inerrancy of the Bible? I would argue not IF you take the position the Bible is inerrant in the message, morals, and spiritual truths it teaches. But some of the exact facts - well, those are much like the parable of Jesus, they are there to convey a bigger point.
Instead of saying, "Its' not in there so I don't need it." at least read the story behind why it wasn't included and see more than one view.
That's not what I am arguing, I'm saying what is in there is all you need to understand how to relate to God. It's not a historical, factual record of specific events, it's events used (sometimes figuratively, like the parables of Jesus - maybe other events as well?) to convey a bigger picture of man's continuing relationship with God, and how that relationship can be mended.
You don't use a saw to loosen a nut, and you don't use a crescent wrench to solder a circuit. The Bible's not meant to be a factual, literal history book IMHO - it's meant to be a relationship guide to teach us how to relate to God and to each other (the Golden rule).
Maybe because Adam was actually touched/fashioned by God at his creation.
Where did the virgin-born Jesus Christ get His Y chromosome? Same place the first man (Adam) got his. From God Himself.
An apple a day!
I don't think it's hard to believe people at the start of humanity lived much longer lives as we do today because they didn't have to deal with so many things we have today which they didn't have back then. Things such as heart disease, cancer, the Second Law of Thermodynamics, protection from the destructive rays of the sun because of a canopy of water filtering gamma rays out, etc. explain why they lived longer. After the flood is when humans started having shorter lives.
Genesis 6 has been discussed for literal centuries with no agreement as to the Nephilim. We can speculate, but there is no resolution in Scripture. Some say they are from Seth, some say they are fallen angels. Some say angels can't have sex. Enoch explains it all and it pretty much makes sense. It also explains why God flooded the earth and why He told His kings to kill everyone, even women and children. These are hard facts to some beginning Christians looking for explanations.
Also, about the inerrancy of the Bible. The Bible is perfect, IMO, but some translations miss the mark. You have to go back to the original Hebrew and Greek to make sure you agree with the translators interpretation.
Just as an example, Gen 4:26. It says at the time of Enosh, men began to CALL upon the name of the Lord. Well, if you search other translations, you can find it interpreted that at that time men began to PROFANE the name of the Lord. Big difference. If you look at Jewish Study sources, you can see that most of them use "profane". Now is the Word inerrant or the translation a mistake? Another can be found in Amos 7:1. If you read most translations, you get almost nothing of the prophesy contained there. In the Septuagint, it names the king of locusts as Gog. Prov 30:27 tells us locusts have no king, so we know this is a prophesy of the end times and who the leader of the army will be. if you didn't search it out, the KJV or the NKJV would leave you hanging.
No one is saying you need to believe The Book of Enoch as part of your Salvation, but it does contain information written by someone that impressed the church fathers at the time of Christ enough to quote from it.
I do not disagree with you that Christ got his Y chromosome from God himself. Not at all!
I do believe God hard-coded the development of Christ’s Y chromosome at the time He took Adam’s chromosomes to create Eve. Perhaps setting the Y gene to activate at a specific time just like a clock set to go off at a certain time.
(the Torah does not state God took Adam’s rib. in the original Hebrew it says the “curve”. sounds like the double helix of Adam’s chromosomes to me)
I also think maybe that’s why the LORD gave the descendants of Isaac rigid kosher dietary laws. Ingesting forbidden food could have upset that hard-coded recessive gene to form Christ’s Y chromosome. Maybe??
You know, a living cell or a seed saved from last year’s harvest for this year’s planting is but an organic computer.
A living cell has its bits either turned on or turned off.
Just like a computer (which in its simplest form is just a box of switches - just like a pipe organ is only a box of whistles). You load the software into that box of whistles
(say, uh, Bach’s toccata in D minor) and it comes to life.
Just as with a living cell.
You know, I honestly think the Almighty wants us to ponder these points. I honestly do. And in doing so we’re actually pondering the magnificence of God himself.
“Methuselah lived 900 years...Methuselah lived 900 years...
But who calls that livin’ when no gal will give in
To no man who’s 900 years?
The things that you’re liable to read in the Bible:
It ain’t necessarily so!”
HAHAHAHAHA!
You do realize that Jews and Noachides regard Christianity as idolatrous right?
Moreover, are you trying to tell me that Jews and Noachides (whoever *they* are) are actively declaring Christianity "a false religion"? Can you name names? And are these people lecturing Christians that their faith is "unauthorized by the Torah."?
After all this, state your point. Thanks.
You’ve obviously misunderstood my post.
http://beta.moshiach.com/index.php/item/the-7-laws-of-the-children-of-noah
...24. In accord with the Seven Universal Commandments, man is enjoined against creating any religion based on his own intellect. He either develops religion based on these Divine Laws or becomes a righteous proselyte, a Jew, and accepts all 613 commandments of the Torah...
WHAT "fabled 120 year limit"?
That's become the eventual spot on number. At least after the Great Flood and the aftermath of an entirely revamped earth, revamped climate, geography, revamped "laws of nature," and revamped Countdown till The End Days (already upon us.)
All genetics and energy devolve and degrade in quality and quantity over time. You're assuming quite a bit from Science in breaking down man's entire DNA code as though it's a matter of running a few more calculations before extending life or "hacking" a younger one. (there are a couple a great Twilight Zone episodes btw on the subject. Sort of. If you have Netflix you're in luck.)
His will is already stated. 120 years it is. And will be. At the optimum.
God chooses to let those who love Him and follow His voice to live as long as needed, to accomplish what He wants them to accomplish.
I agree. Though it doesn't account for the long lives of those who hate Him, or shorter lives of those who've loved Him. It is His Plan, but too many try to de-mystify "reason and purpose" when it comes to The Almighty. Especially as we endure the evil in this world. Fortunately some of us believe in a second *final* life for Eternity. Good news that there's a Heaven. Bad news is that there's a Hell.
Turn away, though, and your life may be long - but will be empty, with no real accomplishment to be recorded. It's as if you lived but a day, not a thousand years...
Sounds as if you may be a Moody Blues fan :-)
After this life is over, there will be no specific memory of accomplishment or regret. That occurs for most folks in the final phase of this life. "Accomplishment" may be just a moment for *His* reason and purpose during the course of mortal life. Though He's "programmed" us to find purpose, I'm not sure that our own personal "achievement" and fulfillment is what makes Him most proud.
And THAT would be....?
Aren’t you just a LITTLE bit surprised that all those lifetimes end in nice, even “divide by 10” numbers? On average, there should be many more than end in something other than zero. But in the Bible..
Oh well. I think it’s more the fact those ages are used as literary metaphors, to show a person lived long and prospered because of their relationship with God, not that they lived exactly 900 years, or 600 years, or 120 years.
"Odd" number would be kinda...odd, wouldn't it? Although 3 and 7 are "odd."
God often is very specific about His numbers in the Bible, isn't he? But we have to assume He rounded them off due to our finite mortal brains. Man is already sufficiently overwhelmed by His word at times. Imagine were "118.68" years to be His written Life Span? We'll have to axe Him when we see Him, "You Big Dawg, what wuz up whiff dose big-time odd numbers from da good book??"
Nah, I think it’s just easier to remember “Adam was 900” instead of “Adam lived 897 years and 10 months”.
It’s not the exact number that matters; I mean, if it was 897 instead of 900, would that crush your faith? If it turned out that really WAS 897 and 900 would your belief in the enternal truths and guidance in the Bible be diminished?
My guess for answers for both is “no”.
Just like the slaying of enemies of the Israelites (again, always a nice round number like 10,000) it’s about “that’s a really big number” that is easy to remember rather than the exact historical, empirical recording.
Quite possible - any way to elucidate it for me? I am truly interested in clearing up any misconceptions I have about the Bible.
Much of the rest of my thoughts turn sardonic/wry/ironic/even snide from time to time, but the Bible is an area where I try to remain serious. rest
Judaism means that Jews follow the 613 commandments and Gentiles follow the Seven Laws of Noah or the Noachide laws. They include a command to establish fair courts to enforce these six prohibitions:
idolatry
blasphemy
sexual immorality
blood-shed
robbery
a limb torn from a living animal.
The belief in the divinity of Jesus would be regarded as Idolatry.
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