Posted on 03/12/2016 9:36:07 AM PST by Salvation
Well, SCRIPTURE says Jesus had brothers.
And it uses the word that means *brothers*.
Again, they weren't stupid. They knew the difference and the Holy Spirit used the Greek word for *brother* and *sister* for a reason.
If He meant *relative* there was a perfectly good word for Him to use instead.
Because Mary knew how babies were made and knew she hadn't had sex yet.
It was a perfectly reasonable question that in no way implied more than she asked.
But this is extra-ordinary claim, requiring extra-ordinary proof. The text does not support this claim; in fact, the plain reading seems to present the opposite claim, and only by using the less frequently used meaning of “until” is this extra-ordinary claim even possible.
Also, how is her perpetual virginity relevant to a believer’s salvation?
Same for knowing that a virgin birth and Joseph also being Jesus' actual father is not a contradiction. Is anything too hard for the Lord? Eh, Sarah was ninety..
Angels might even fear to tread in *that* no man's land. Kind of like a valley of dry bones: not exactly a tourist destination.
Just another unBiblical idea made dogma.
Have you thought about the rebuke Jesus gave to all of them, His Mother included, when they came and asked others to have Him 'step outside'?
You further opined, querying "His siblings denied Him? If you are familiar with the New Testament, that one you can answer for yourself.
And you asked, "His siblings were saved later? " As we read in the New Testament, at least some of His siblings became believers, proclaiming the Gospel of Grace. This means they did what God requires, as offered by JESUS in John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
With only a little reasoning, it is apparent that the siblings were not at the execution yet The Mother of Jesus was. You would prefer this assignation of His Mother to the care of John is because she had no surviving children or husband. I do not believe that to be the case, based upon the passages which refer to His Mother and brothers and sisters. Those identities would not have been a confusion to people living in the area and having experience for decades with the family of Joseph and Mary.
When Mary went to see Elizabeth, how was Elizabeth identified in the scriptures?
It would be an insult to Mary to call her 'just another Jewish girl who got pregnant' but it is also a huge insult to Her to assign authorities and powers which the Bible does not relate.
You accept that adelphos is used in the Bible for a huge variety of familial and non-familial relationships, but you insist that adelphe is used only for literal sisters?
Perhaps this example will help you.
Matthew 27:56 and Mark 15:40 speak of Mary, the mother of James and Joseph.
In Matthew 27:61 and 28:1, she is referred to as “the other Mary.” John 19:25 identifies this Mary as the wife of Clopas, the adelphe of Jesus’s mother, Mary.
When reading these gospels, particularly John’s, it is clear that three different women were at the foot of the cross, and all three had the name 'Mary.'
Were Mary the wife of Clopas and Jesus’s mother literal sisters?
If they were, then why did their parents give them the same name?
The simple answer is that they weren't sisters, and the word adelphe is being used here in the same broad sense that adelphos is used in scripture - to mean 'cousin' or 'kinswoman'.
And if adelphe is so used here, then it would be completely inappropriate to insist that it be translated as 'literal sister' elsewhere.
And throughout scripture these words are also used for relationships which have nothing to do with literal brotherhood.
You've allowed yourself to be blinded by 'context', otherwise known as 'your own agenda'.
Please see Matthew 4:18
Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.
Are Peter and Andrew brothers by the same parents or just relationships which have "nothing to do with literal brotherhood?"
Guess which word is used to denote brothers?
ἀδελφούς
It is plural of ἀδελφός, brother.
Context tells you Simon and Andrew are blood brothers from the same parents.
Matthew 10:2
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
Guess which Greek is used here?
So no....this is not my agenda. My agenda is to help you understand that context is the key to understanding a passage.
You have to look at more than just one word. How is it used in context? Is it indicating possession? Is it an adjective?
What are the verbs indicating in the passage.
Without knowing the Greek behind it you cannot really understand the finer points the writer(s) are making.
I hope this helps in your understanding of the Word.
No it doesn't. It uses the word that is used for 'brother, 'kinsmen', 'relative' or even 'friend'.
Was Lot the brother of Abraham, or was he his kinsman?
Was Jonathan the brother of David, or was he his friend?
But still it is possibile.
Until does sometimes mean until and after, and brother sometimes means relative.
Not relevant to your salvation, but relevant to mine.
Love,
O2
BTW, all the Mariology Magic is not related to a believers salvation, EXCEPT in the works based striving for salvation religion of catholiciism which requires devotion to Mary in goddess status for the blessings of Catholic faith. She can keep a catholic out of purgatory! She can shorten a Catholic's time in purgatory! She can make her son answer your requests for blessings! sHE IS THE GODDESS PORTION OF THE RELIGION WHICH SOUGHT to pull the pagans into the power circle of catholiciism. That's a yuge insult to The Mother of Jesus.
Conjecture is not Scripture. It's only the same kind of reasonings that leave one spiritually afloat and lost without the compass that points truly to Jesus and security forever.
Don't waste your time on this kind of thing.
Mary did have more children, and at least some of them were influential in the days when the literature of the New Covenant was being written. The Book of James, her son, half-brother to Jesus, was one of the earliest letters sent to the churches, warning them of imposters.
The same kind of imposters are mightily active today, and need sharp, decisive reproof.
But unusual. Looking at the surrounding text, it also says that Joseph stayed in Egypt until Herod was dead (Matthew 2:13-15). So is Joseph still in Egypt?
Not relevant to your salvation, but relevant to mine.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you care to elaborate?
For instance:
Was Jonathan was the literal brother of David?
Was Lot was the literal brother of Abraham?
Indeed not. These words are used to denote a huge range of familial and non-familial relationships. It would be insane (for instance) to insist that Jesus had literal brothers simply because a word that usually doesn't mean literal brother is used.
“If they were, then why did their parents give them the same name?” LOL Why did George Forman name all his sons ‘George’? ... sorry, I just thought your ranting third degree deserved a bit of levity.
See my post 88 to you.
Awaiting your answers.
Yes, but the angel said “shall conceive”, indicating a future event. If someone said to me (even an angel) when I was that age, ‘you will have a child’, my first question would not be ‘how?’, but ‘when?’. (At this age it would be ‘how?’ but that’s a different story :-) )
Of course Mary knew how babies were made, so why did she know from this statement that this one would be made differently? There is nothing in what the angel says prior to her question that would indicate she would remain a virgin to have this child. He doesn’t tell her that she will be made pregnant by the Holy Spirit until after she asks.
Love,
O2
Ahh, you’re beginning to understand why CONTEXT in scriptures are so vital to not being dragged out into Magic Thinking applications.
Perhaps there is hope! ... Remember Abram’s wife Sarai?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.