Posted on 08/21/2015 7:07:55 AM PDT by Salvation
There is a common Protestant claim that there is one (sole) mediator between God and Man—Jesus. Therefore, they say, asking the saints to pray for us is useless, wrong, and maybe even sinful. Those who object, usually cite some of the following texts:
To this claim, we should first answer that we do not teach a substitutional mediation in invoking the saints, as if we were trying to go to the Father apart from Jesus’ mediation.
Rather, we speak of a subordinate mediation, in which we seek the prayers of the saints, or of one another. For indeed we could have no communion with them or one another if it were not for Jesus Christ, who as the Head of the Body, the Church, unites all His members and facilitates our communion with one another.
Objectors seem to speak of there being one mediator in an absolute sense, excluding any other possible interaction or any subordinate mediation. But consider that if there is only one mediator in an absolute sense, then no one ought to ask ANYONE to pray for him; and neither should the objectors attend any church, read any book, listen to any sermon, or even read the Bible (since the Bible mediates Jesus’ words to you).
A “mediator” is someone or something that acts as a “go-between,” acting to facilitate our relationship with Jesus. And though Jesus mediates our relationship to the Father, He also asked Apostles, preachers, and teachers to mediate, to facilitate His relationship with us.
Thus Jesus sent Apostles out to draw others to him. St. Paul says, How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ (Rom 10:14-15, 17).
And thus Jesus has His relationship with us mediated through His Word and through the Apostles and others who announce that Word and draw us to Him.
But since some Protestants say that there is absolutely only ONE mediator, and no subordinate or deputed mediators, there is therefore no need to ask ANYONE or ANYTHING to mediate. So should they not burn their Bibles, stop asking anyone to pray for them, and seek no advice, since NO ONE can mediate a single thing? No one can do this because there is, as they say in an absolutely unqualified sense, only ONE mediator—one and only one.
But for those of us who see that there is a subordinated mediation in service of Christ’s supreme mediation, the prayers of others, preaching, and teaching all make sense. And just as the Bible can mediate His presence and will, or as a preacher can mediate His word, so too can the prayers of others (including the Saints) convey my prayers to Him. And Jesus can mediate my prayers to the Father and give graces to me by mediating them through others.
Consider the analogy of the body, since the Church is Christ’s Body. Jesus has one Body and all the parts are connected through the Head, who is Jesus. Now consider your own body. All the members of your body have communion and unity through your head, your mind. There are different ways to have interaction with others. Perhaps someone will reach you through your ears by speaking, or through the sense of touch by tapping you on the shoulder, or visually by waving. Various members of your body facilitate (mediate) interaction with others in different ways, but it is all facilitated through the head of your body, your mind. So, too, do I confidently expect to reach Jesus in different ways: directly, or through one of His members (realizing that He Himself facilitates it).
And thus for us Catholics, our relationship with Jesus is a rich tapestry of relationships with all the members of His body, those who are with us here and now as well as those who have gone on before us but remain members of the one Body, the Church, with Christ our Head.
Greetings RWC and MM.
the dead are dead. the only living is the resurrected JESUS. praying to dead people is sinful and conjures up evil spirits.
“Additional ways of looking at it” sure sounds like looking away from it to me.
Perhaps you are not aware of the Religion Moderator’s rules.
This would not have passed the test for a Catholic Caucus because the first line mentions PROTESTants.
I purposely avoid threads regarding theology, eschatology, doctrine, etc. There is usually vitriol, ad hominem attacks, etc., and I don't like to see FReepers act like that. Remember, if the shtf, you would probably want a FReeper in your foxhole.
I want everyone to pray for me. Whether it is the apostle Peter, or mere humans, I need all the prayers I can get.
Remember the Lord said to pray incessantly. Why did he say that? Because he could be busy with things more important than me.
Who said, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil?"
Incoming!
5.56mm
And how do these supposed saints hear your prayers? Can they read your mind? If they can, they must be gods themselves because omniscience is only of God.
Praying to anyone besides our omniscient Lord is a form of worship. Worshiping anyone but our Lord is Satanic.
“Did God really say...???”
Charles is stretching it here.
That is incorrect.
We should pray unceasingly because the more we pray, the closer to God we get--in terms of emotion, thoughts, attitude, outlook, and discernment.
If you actually believe that God--the Creator of the entire universe, billions of individual free wills, omnipresent, and omnipotent--could possibly be "too busy" then you have a very small god.
‘If we didn’t know better’ one could believe the poster is trying her best to trap non-catholics she doesn’t want at fr, so they get beaned for responding to the smears she posts under the guise of ‘open discussion’. I mean, how can a Christian openly object to the raising of Mary to co-mediator of salvation, without having the ball bat upside the head as catholic bashing?
A “mediator” is someone or something that acts as a “go-between,” acting to facilitate our relationship with Jesus. And though Jesus mediates our relationship to the Father, He also asked Apostles, preachers, and teachers to mediate, to facilitate His relationship with us.
Surely then you can show us some scriptures where Jesus asked anyone to mediate for us...
More perversion and deception by your religion...
me·di·ate
1. intervene between people in a dispute in order to bring about an agreement or reconciliation.
Jesus is not only the mediator but our advocate...
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
We don't have many advocates...We have ONE advocate...
THE mediator argues our case before the Father...And is successful...Saints, Mary, your uncle Hermy nor anyone else has that position of authority...
But since some Protestants say that there is absolutely only ONE mediator, and no subordinate or deputed mediators, there is therefore no need to ask ANYONE or ANYTHING to mediate.
And that is exactly true, and biblical...You nor no one can mediate between another person and God...
The best we can do is to pray to God for others...And praying is most definitely not mediation...
Is this a tradition of the church now putting a blessing on contacting the dead or trying to, to get their help?
And Jesus taught HOW to pray:
Our Father (not saints) who art in Heaven......
Pray TO the Father, In Jesus’ name.
HE wants to hear from you.
HaHa...There is no interpretation involved...Clearly this priest Pope wants you to question the bible just as Satan did...
Gen_3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Jesus said, there is ONE mediator...You really think you can interpret that to mean TWO or more mediators???
It is not to Jesus.
It is not to Mary.
We pray ONLY to the Father.
Ya beat me to it. :)
No you don't...That would mean you alone settle the outcome of the position of God and the position of the person you are mediating for...
Mediation has nothing to do with prayer...We pray...Jesus mediates...
“Show me a scripture that tells us to ask saints in Heaven to pray for us.”
First, show me a scripture that says every truth is explicit in scripture.
There is no verse.
“To be clear, St. Paul is talking about the dead.”
Only as we perceive them commonly. Through Christ we see them differently. We see them as God sees them (Luke 20:38).
I’m sure satan has given lots of ‘truths’ that are not in the Scriptures. Your assertion makes room for lots of ‘stuff’ from the magicsteeringthem ... very Mormonesque, IMHO.
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