Posted on 08/21/2015 7:07:55 AM PDT by Salvation
There is a common Protestant claim that there is one (sole) mediator between God and Man—Jesus. Therefore, they say, asking the saints to pray for us is useless, wrong, and maybe even sinful. Those who object, usually cite some of the following texts:
To this claim, we should first answer that we do not teach a substitutional mediation in invoking the saints, as if we were trying to go to the Father apart from Jesus’ mediation.
Rather, we speak of a subordinate mediation, in which we seek the prayers of the saints, or of one another. For indeed we could have no communion with them or one another if it were not for Jesus Christ, who as the Head of the Body, the Church, unites all His members and facilitates our communion with one another.
Objectors seem to speak of there being one mediator in an absolute sense, excluding any other possible interaction or any subordinate mediation. But consider that if there is only one mediator in an absolute sense, then no one ought to ask ANYONE to pray for him; and neither should the objectors attend any church, read any book, listen to any sermon, or even read the Bible (since the Bible mediates Jesus’ words to you).
A “mediator” is someone or something that acts as a “go-between,” acting to facilitate our relationship with Jesus. And though Jesus mediates our relationship to the Father, He also asked Apostles, preachers, and teachers to mediate, to facilitate His relationship with us.
Thus Jesus sent Apostles out to draw others to him. St. Paul says, How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ (Rom 10:14-15, 17).
And thus Jesus has His relationship with us mediated through His Word and through the Apostles and others who announce that Word and draw us to Him.
But since some Protestants say that there is absolutely only ONE mediator, and no subordinate or deputed mediators, there is therefore no need to ask ANYONE or ANYTHING to mediate. So should they not burn their Bibles, stop asking anyone to pray for them, and seek no advice, since NO ONE can mediate a single thing? No one can do this because there is, as they say in an absolutely unqualified sense, only ONE mediator—one and only one.
But for those of us who see that there is a subordinated mediation in service of Christ’s supreme mediation, the prayers of others, preaching, and teaching all make sense. And just as the Bible can mediate His presence and will, or as a preacher can mediate His word, so too can the prayers of others (including the Saints) convey my prayers to Him. And Jesus can mediate my prayers to the Father and give graces to me by mediating them through others.
Consider the analogy of the body, since the Church is Christ’s Body. Jesus has one Body and all the parts are connected through the Head, who is Jesus. Now consider your own body. All the members of your body have communion and unity through your head, your mind. There are different ways to have interaction with others. Perhaps someone will reach you through your ears by speaking, or through the sense of touch by tapping you on the shoulder, or visually by waving. Various members of your body facilitate (mediate) interaction with others in different ways, but it is all facilitated through the head of your body, your mind. So, too, do I confidently expect to reach Jesus in different ways: directly, or through one of His members (realizing that He Himself facilitates it).
And thus for us Catholics, our relationship with Jesus is a rich tapestry of relationships with all the members of His body, those who are with us here and now as well as those who have gone on before us but remain members of the one Body, the Church, with Christ our Head.
So, even though the Bible says that there is ONE mediator - Jesus, somebody in the Catholic Church decided (without Biblical documentation) that Jesus is either too busy or not good enough and so we need to pray to dead people in order to speak to our God?
Just like the climate change argument, I don’t understand how basic truth can be missed here.
If God declares that Jesus is our mediator/intercessor, who are we to “correct” Him?
That is pretty treacherous ground to be walking on in my opinion.
verb (used with object), mediated, mediating.
1.
to settle (disputes, strikes, etc.) as an intermediary between parties; reconcile.
2.
to bring about (an agreement, accord, truce, peace, etc.) as an intermediary between parties by compromise, reconciliation, removal of misunderstanding, etc.
3.
to effect (a result) or convey (a message, gift, etc.) by or as if by an intermediary.
verb (used without object), mediated, mediating.
4.
to act between parties to effect an agreement, compromise, reconciliation, etc.
5.
to occupy an intermediate place or position.
Not mediate. I do ask anyone to be my go-between, I ask them to pray for grace, mercy, and healing as a third party not in lieu of me asking. I can and will talk to Jesus on my own I do not need another person to help me or talk for me.
I don’t think the problem is that NO criticism or disagreement is allowed. The problem is the nature of the disagreement.
Pope does not disagree with Scripture. Indeed, he cites a Pauline description of mediation of the Gospel and invites us to consider whether a preacher is a mediator.
It’s not Scripture with which he disagrees but with a particular interpretation of Scripture which, in his opinion, contradicts Scripture itself. That much can be gained from reading the brief article.
So, when a response suggests that he is inviting us to believe him RATHER THAN a scripture, that response is not, uh, responsive.
To whom are they praying?
FOR whom are they praying?
Defs 3, 4, and 5.
That is the meaning of the "Communion of Saints" and the "Body of Christ."
Tagline.
Agreed, but I believe the Monsignor was taking the RC mandated, safe route. St. Paul may have been referring to a pastor/preacher being a mediator but he never once delved into the thought that the dead could ever be considered as such. This is where RC doctrine diverges from scripture and leads the faithful away from Christ as the only source.
When anyone shows me from the SCRIPTURES where we are told to pray to dead people I will do it! While I consider myself as neither Catholic nor Protestant (simply a Christian) the Protestants were right to identify this practice as having no biblical authority! Back to the Bible!
Only when we are living. The dead do not meddle in the affairs of the living.
That is the meaning of the "Communion of Saints" and the "Body of Christ."
Nope. Not even close, at least where it concerns those who are apart from the body and are in the presence of the Lord.
Pray to the Lord.
Anyone they want.
The big difference is asking dead people to do anything. They are beyond our reach. As far as living they can pray to the Lord for anything they want and for me and others if they wish. I do not however need someone who stands in between me and the Lord (like the Pope or any earthly pastor) and tries to act as a channel or direct line for me. I have a direct line, His name is Jesus.
Hey, who are you going to believe anywise, the Bible or some guy in a dress with a funny hat?
“When anyone shows me from the SCRIPTURES where we are told to pray to dead people I will do it!”
First, show us where scripture claims the saints in Heaven are dead people rather than alive in Christ, okay?
He didn’t say the Bible was wrong. He said there are additional ways of looking at it.
If you are a baptized Catholic you will always be a Catholic. You may not be an active one, but you can come back at any time by sitting down with a priest and getting your questions answered.
When people die, only their body dies. Their soul is instantly judged by Christ.
You’re welcome.
Show me a scripture that tells us to ask saints in Heaven to pray for us.
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