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Was The Papacy Established By Christ?
triablogue ^ | June 23, 2006 | Jason Engwer

Posted on 06/19/2015 12:01:57 PM PDT by RnMomof7

For those who don't have much familiarity with the dispute between Protestants and Catholics over the doctrine of the papacy, I want to post two introductory articles on the subject today and tomorrow. The first article, this one, will be about the Biblical evidence, and tomorrow's article will be about the early post-Biblical evidence.

Roman Catholicism claims the papacy as its foundation. According to the Catholic Church, the doctrine of the papacy was understood and universally accepted as early as the time of Peter:

"At open variance with this clear doctrine of Holy Scripture as it has been ever understood by the Catholic Church are the perverse opinions of those who, while they distort the form of government established by Christ the Lord in his Church, deny that Peter in his single person, preferably to all the other Apostles, whether taken separately or together, was endowed by Christ with a true and proper primacy of jurisdiction; or of those who assert that the same primacy was not bestowed immediately and directly upon blessed Peter himself, but upon the Church, and through the Church on Peter as her minister....For none can doubt, and it is known to all ages, that the holy and blessed Peter, the Prince and Chief of the Apostles, the pillar of the faith and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of mankind, and lives presides and judges, to this day and always, in his successors the Bishops of the Holy See of Rome" (First Vatican Council, session 4, chapters 1-2)

Different Catholics interpret these claims of the First Vatican Council in different ways. Some Catholics will argue that the concept of the papacy that was understood and accepted in the earliest generations involved universal jurisdiction, so that the differences between how modern Catholics and the most ancient Catholics viewed Peter and the bishops of Rome would be minor. Other Catholics claim, instead, that the earliest Christians wouldn't have associated a concept like universal jurisdiction with Peter and the earliest Roman bishops, and they maintain that the modern view of the papacy developed more gradually. Some Catholics even go as far as to claim that there's no need to show that a concept like universal jurisdiction was intended by Jesus and the apostles. They may argue for the papacy on the basis of philosophical speculation or personal preference, or they may claim that no argument is needed for the doctrine.

Catholics who take that last sort of approach are abandoning the battlefield without admitting defeat. Any belief could be maintained on such a basis. If we're going to accept the papacy just because it seems to produce more denominational unity than other systems of church government, because our parents were Catholic, or for some other such inconclusive reason, then we have no publicly verifiable case to make for the doctrine. My intention in these posts is to address some of the popular arguments of those who attempt to make a more objective case for the papacy.

Those who argue that a seed form of the papacy existed early on, one that wasn't initially associated with universal jurisdiction, would need to demonstrate that such a seed form of the doctrine did exist. And they would need to demonstrate that the concept of universal jurisdiction would eventually develop from that seed. It wouldn't be enough to show that the development of universal jurisdiction is possible. We don't believe that something is true just because it's possible. If we're supposed to accept a papacy with universal jurisdiction on some other basis, such as the alleged authority of the Catholic hierarchy that teaches the concept, then an objective case will have to be made for the supposed authority of that hierarchy.

If there had been a papacy in the first century that was recognized as a distinct office, we would expect it to be mentioned in much the same way that offices such as bishop and deacon are mentioned. We wouldn't expect Roman Catholics to have to go to passages like Matthew 16 and John 21 to find alleged references to a papacy if such an office of universal jurisdiction existed and was recognized during the New Testament era. Instead, we would expect explicit and frequent references to the office, such as in the pastoral epistles and other passages on church government.

That's what we see with the offices of bishop and deacon. Not only are the offices mentioned (Acts 20:17, Philippians 1:1), but we also see repeated references to their appointment (Acts 14:23, Ephesians 4:11, Titus 1:5), their qualifications (1 Timothy 3:1-13, Titus 1:5-9), their discipline (1 Timothy 5:19-20), their responsibilities (Ephesians 4:12-13, Titus 1:10-11, James 5:14, 1 Peter 5:1-3), their reward (1 Timothy 5:17-18, 1 Peter 5:4), their rank (1 Corinthians 12:28), the submission due them (1 Timothy 2:11-12), etc. If there was an office that was to have jurisdictional primacy and infallibility throughout church history, an office that could be called the foundation of the church, wouldn't we expect it to be mentioned explicitly and often? But it isn't mentioned at all, even when the early sources are discussing Peter or the Roman church. In the New Testament, which covers about the first 60 years of church history (the prophecies in Revelation and elsewhere cover much more), there isn't a single Roman bishop mentioned or named, nor are there any admonitions to submit to the papacy or any references to appointing Popes, determining whether he's exercising his infallibility, appealing to him to settle disputes, etc. When speaking about the post-apostolic future, the apostles are concerned with bishops and teachers in general (Acts 20:28-31, 2 Timothy 2:2) and submission to scripture (2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 3:1-2, Revelation 22:18-19), but don't say a word about any papacy.

Craig Keener, citing Jaroslav Pelikan, comments that "most scholars, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, concur that Peter died in Rome but doubt that Mt 16:18 intended the authority later claimed by the papacy (Pelikan 1980: 60)" (A Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew [Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1999], n. 74 on p. 425). The Roman Catholic scholar Klaus Schatz comments:

"There appears at the present time to be increasing consensus among Catholic and non-Catholic exegetes regarding the Petrine office in the New Testament….The further question whether there was any notion of an enduring office beyond Peter’s lifetime, if posed in purely historical terms, should probably be answered in the negative. That is, if we ask whether the historical Jesus, in commissioning Peter, expected him to have successors, or whether the author of the Gospel of Matthew, writing after Peter’s death, was aware that Peter and his commission survived in the leaders of the Roman community who succeeded him, the answer in both cases is probably 'no.'…If we ask in addition whether the primitive Church was aware, after Peter’s death, that his authority had passed to the next bishop of Rome, or in other words that the head of the community at Rome was now the successor of Peter, the Church’s rock and hence the subject of the promise in Matthew 16:18-19, the question, put in those terms, must certainly be given a negative answer." (Papal Primacy [Collegeville, Minnesota: The Liturgical Press, 1996], pp. 1-2)

What's said of Peter in Matthew 16 and John 21 is said of other people in other passages. Other people are rocks upon whom the church is built (Ephesians 2:20), other people have the keys of the kingdom that let them bind and loose and open and shut (Matthew 18:18, 23:13), and other people are shepherds of the church (Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 5:2). Just as Peter is given a second name, so are other people (Mark 3:17). Peter is called "Peter" prior to the events of Matthew 16 (John 1:42), and we can't know whether he was given the name as a result of Matthew 16 or, instead, Jesus' choice of imagery in Matthew 16 was shaped by a name Peter was already given for another reason.

Peter is singled out in Matthew 16 and John 21, but his being singled out doesn't suggest jurisdictional primacy. We could speculate that Peter is singled out in these passages because he's supposed to fulfill the roles in these passages in a greater way than other people, but such a speculation can't be proven. Other people are singled out in other passages, but we don't conclude that those people were Popes. Even if Peter was singled out because he was to fulfill these roles (rock and shepherd) in a greater way than anybody else, he wouldn't need to be a Pope in order to fulfill these roles in a greater way than other people. And he wouldn't need to have successors in that role.

So, if Peter isn't singled out in Matthew 16 and John 21 because he was being made a Pope, then why was he singled out?

In Matthew 16, he's probably singled out because he singles himself out. He's the one who answered Jesus' question. Similarly, John and James are singled out in Mark 10:35-40 because they were the ones who initiated the discussion with Jesus, not because they were being given some sort of primacy.

In John 21, Peter probably is singled out because he was the one in need of restoration. Peter was the one who denied Jesus three times and thus needed to reaffirm his love for Jesus three times. Since the other apostles didn't deny Jesus as Peter did, it would make no sense for Jesus to approach them the way He approached Peter. Similarly, Jesus treats Thomas (John 20:26-29), John (John 21:20-23), and Paul (Acts 9:1-15) differently than He treats the other apostles. But nobody would assume that Thomas, John, or Paul therefore has jurisdictional primacy or that such a primacy was passed on to a succession of bishops.

Catholics sometimes argue for a papacy by interpreting Matthew 16 in light of Isaiah 22:20-22. But whatever relevance Isaiah 22 would have to Matthew 16, it would have relevance for Matthew 23, Luke 11, and other passages that use such imagery as well. And any Catholic appeal to Isaiah 22 would have to be a partial appeal, not a complete parallel, since a complete parallel wouldn't favor the claims of Roman Catholicism. God is the one who gives the key in Isaiah 22, so an exact parallel would put Jesus in the place of God, not in the place of the king. So, if Jesus is God and Peter is the prime minister, then who is the king? Some church official with more authority than Peter? What about Isaiah 22:25? Should we assume that Popes can "break off and fall", and that the keys of Matthew 16 can eventually pass to God Himself (Revelation 3:7) rather than to a human successor? If Catholics only want to make a general appeal to Isaiah 22, without making an exact parallel, then how can they claim that papal authority is implied by the parallel? Why can't the Isaiah 22 background convey a general theme of authority without that authority being of a papal nature?

Paul refers to "apostles" (plural) as the highest rank in the church (1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 2:20), and he names Peter second among three reputed pillars of the church (Galatians 2:9). The most natural reading of the Biblical evidence is to see Peter as a highly reputed pillar of the church who had equal rank, equal jurisdiction, with the other apostles. He could be said to have had some types of primacy in some contexts, and the same could be said of other apostles and early church leaders, but there's no reason to think that papal authority was one of those types of primacy or that such authority was passed on exclusively to a succession of Roman bishops.

There is no papacy in the New Testament. It's not there explicitly or implicitly. This "clear doctrine of Holy Scripture" that the First Vatican Council refers to isn't even Biblical, much less clearly Biblical. Roman Catholics assume that a papacy is implied in some New Testament passages, but that assumption can't be proven and is unlikely.



TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Judaism; Skeptics/Seekers
KEYWORDS: catholicism; globalwarminghoax; history; papacy; popefrancis; romancatholicism; theology
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To: Elsie

...but many of their PRACTICES from MARY!


Her blessing was baring Gods son and they are trying to cross Ts that are not there.


201 posted on 06/20/2015 6:11:43 AM PDT by ravenwolf (t)
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To: Elsie

You can’t prove it!


202 posted on 06/20/2015 6:24:42 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: NCDave

<And a level of control as well<
Really? I live in south Mississippi. How can the Pope control me? And the other poster who mentioned money. There are plenty of Protestant pastors rolling in money teaching the prosperity gospel.

“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.” It won’t prevail against the church because of Jesus Christ because it His church. Prevail doesn’t mean we won’t be hounded, tortured,or have tribulations. We will prevail however because of Christ.

There is plenty of evil people in the Catholic church just like any other. We will survive this socialist Pope just like we have already survived countless others.

9 people gunned down in a church just trying to worship. Christians all throughout Iraq, Syria and on and on being tortured and murdered in the most brutal ways and you all want to stir up trouble with other Christians. All of this is brought on by the evil one.


203 posted on 06/20/2015 6:38:43 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God. ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Iscool; ravenwolf

The Catholic Church teachings are based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Jesus told the Apostles Go Baptize and teach all nations.

The words of a heretic: They are a rogue religion that has no basis in scripture.


204 posted on 06/20/2015 6:39:45 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: dhs12345

>No offense to any Catholics but the Pope is just another flawed sinner like you or I.<

None taken. Catholics are well aware of this fact. No one is more upset about the evil people lurking in our Church than we are.


205 posted on 06/20/2015 6:45:43 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God. ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Syncro

Your comment:”Therefore all those that are born again believers in Jesus will be of one mind on spiritual matters.”

You really believe that?

The protest religions seem to continue make their own interpretations of the Bible. i.e. marriage and divorce, abortion, female clergy, same sex marriage, homosexuality, the Real Presence, etc?


206 posted on 06/20/2015 6:47:16 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: mikeus_maximus

>Scripture is fine so long as it doesn’t contradict their leadership’s pronouncements<

Which is exactly the same thing Protestants do. Whoever keeps posting these threads for the pure sake of causing arguments would do well to remember Jesus’s words of pull the plank from your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from another. Clean your own house and the evil that is lurking within it. Then come criticize ours.


207 posted on 06/20/2015 7:01:21 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God. ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Lil Flower; dhs12345

The Catholic Church is made up of saints and sinners and welcomes all.

Just as Jesus spent time with the poor and sinners, The Catholic Church wants all to hear the Good News of Jesus and follow His teachings.

The mission of the Catholic Church is to lead all to salvation with God in Heaven.


208 posted on 06/20/2015 7:10:00 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: Elsie

You say it is a provable lie, but in a mystery religion what the leadership declare can never be a lie. Catholicism is a mystery religion. How else can a pedophile priest turn the wine into blood that was spread upon the Mercy Seat IN HEAVEN, and the wafer into the flesh of a man who is in Heaven? The mystery is never to be questioned for it is a mystery the followers are not gifted enough to understand, so they blindly defend it regardless of what Truth is put before them.


209 posted on 06/20/2015 7:16:02 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: Iscool

>The Catholic religion avoids Paul’s teaching and gospel at all costs.<

We hear the words of St Paul at almost every Mass throughout the year and the Gospel at every Mass. How could we possibly be ignoring Paul and the Gospel?


210 posted on 06/20/2015 7:22:52 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God. ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Elsie

>Just because none were listed does NOT mean you can claim that none was there!<

Not in Scripture = didn’t happen. Don’t waver in your beliefs.


211 posted on 06/20/2015 7:31:30 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God. ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: ADSUM

Agreed, but none of these threads are going to accomplish that. Its this same group always posting this nonsense. I seen the word cult thrown about a few times. I’m disappointed in myself for being “sucked in” again.


212 posted on 06/20/2015 7:42:16 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God. ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: RnMomof7

….and furthermore, a study of the early post-New Testament church fathers does not yield to the idea of a papacy. It is not something they discussed, even though they spoke a great deal about church life.

On the other hand, they did seem at pains to emphasize obedience to the local bishops generally.

On the “other other hand,” in that day, in that culture, the idea of “congregational government” would have been something they would not even have thought of. Pretty much everything was autocratic, though isolated examples of oligarchies can be found.

My belief is that there is no “correct” form of church government, which is why it is so ill-defined in scripture. what it looks like depends on the local culture in which the church exists and the leading of the Holy Spirit. The church is always (or should be) very adaptable on the non-essential matters.


213 posted on 06/20/2015 7:51:12 AM PDT by cookcounty ("I was a Democrat until I learned to count" --Maine Gov. Paul LePage)
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To: ADSUM

“The mission of the Catholic Church is to lead all to salvation with God in Heaven.” And when in spacetime is a sinner saved, born from above, Justified before God? Do you need multiple choice answers in order to respond, or will you avoid even answering?


214 posted on 06/20/2015 8:14:59 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: PGR88

But read all of Matthew 16. Read it in context. The disciples were confused about Jesus, both his teaching and his identity.

Then Peter correctly states who Jesus is, revealed to him by the Holy Spirit. This confession is what Jesus is talking about, and that Peter was the example of what to believe.

It is Christ who is the Foundation, the Rock, and Peter was identifying himself with that Rock, to which Jesus responded with great approval. It is like people naming their child “Grace” or “Faith.” The person is not faith or grace, but (it is the parents’ hope) that they will embody and be expressions of Grace or Faith, or Hope. In Peter’s pre-ressurrection days, he was anything but a rock, he was

The term ekklesia (church) in that day meant nothing more than “assembly” or “gathering.” There were words for Temples and Priesthoods and structures, but those terms were not used.

Also note that this is one single reference is scripture, nowhere repeated, and it is found in the Gospel that was written by a Jew, addressed to the Jewish community. Establishing the identity of Messiah was especially crucial in this community, that’s why it’s in Matthew.

As to the “keys,” this refers to the church universal, catholic, small “c.” God answers prayer. We have all (hopefully) seen “loosing and binding” that seems to have been tied to our prayers to Our Blessed and Wonderful Lord, though it is His action, not ours.


215 posted on 06/20/2015 8:19:02 AM PDT by cookcounty ("I was a Democrat until I learned to count" --Maine Gov. Paul LePage)
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To: Lil Flower

Yes, Protestants do that as well, and not surprising since they came from Catholicism. First century Christians didn’t have that problem, since they were neither Catholic nor Protestant.

We should each be one those those, not sheep blindly following non-biblical organizations created by men. To them, “ekklesia” which we translate as “church” meant only “a called-out assembly of people.” It was the same word used for the secular assembly in Acts 17:5. In the case of Christians, it meant called out from the world. The idea of “church” being used to describe a building, or to define a broad organization beyond each local, independent congregation, was totally foreign to them and the apostles. One does not have to be a Greek scholar to know this— just read the scriptures and see what’s not there.

What became the Catholic “church” evolved over centuries. It was a man-made organization that began as an adjunct of the Roman empire, and it adopted that government’s structure. The so-called church fathers that modern catholic apologists like point to knew nothing of such an organization or a pope. http://www.bible.ca/ntx-organization-historical-development-papal-patriarchal-systems-33-606AD.htm

Finally, dear lady, the “mote-beam” teaching has to do with leading an egregious sinful life while accusing others of sin. Pointing out biblical truth is never sin— in fact, Christ requires it. You would be wise to run from any group or teacher that does not encourage individual bible study and understanding of such passages, apart from the officials pronouncements of some group.

But again, that’s a choice each of us makes..


216 posted on 06/20/2015 8:27:29 AM PDT by mikeus_maximus
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To: ADSUM

Really? Don’t think so.


217 posted on 06/20/2015 8:58:51 AM PDT by MamaB (Heb. 13:2)
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To: cookcounty
The Messiah chose the apostles and gave them authority to represent him on earth. The apostles, led by Cephas/Simon Peter chose a replacement apostle for Judas Iscariot, who fell into perdition. The Messiah chose an apostle to the Gentiles, Saul/Paul, to whom Cephas and the other apostles gave the right hand of fellowship, one holy catholic and apostolic church. These apostles appointed a new generation of elders and bishops, and commanded them to continue this unbroken chain, to oversee and feed (to shepherd? the holy catholic apostolic church until the Messiah returns, by the laying on of hands from one generation to the other since the ascension of the LORD Jesus Christ. Korah is not a good model, nor a wise investment, for the Protestant faith communities.

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) 16Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Matthew, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses thirteen to nineteen,
Matthew, Catholic chapter eighteen, Protestant verses fifteen to twenty two,
John, Catholic chapter thirteen, Protestant verses eighteen to twenty,
John, Catholic chapter twenty, Protestant verses nineteen to twenty three,
Acts, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses fifteen to twenty six,
Acts, Catholic chapter fourteen, Protestant verses twenty one to twenty three,
Titus, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses four to five,
Jude, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses five to eight,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

218 posted on 06/20/2015 9:00:54 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: cookcounty
>>>As to the “keys,” this refers to the church universal, catholic, small “c.” God answers prayer. We have all (hopefully) seen “loosing and binding” that seems to have been tied to our prayers to Our Blessed and Wonderful Lord, though it is His action, not ours.<<<

Mt.16.19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Christ addressed Peter alone. The three words "you" in this passage are all singular. Christ was not speaking of prayers by members of the "universal, catholic, small 'c'" Church. He was speaking specifically to Peter and gave him "keys" for a single purpose. I explained what those "keys" were for in post #169.

219 posted on 06/20/2015 9:02:25 AM PDT by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: terycarl

The same Peter that Christ tells to get behind him Satan 3 verses later? Or did you priest not tell you that one... Ok.....


220 posted on 06/20/2015 9:33:43 AM PDT by Mom MD
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