Posted on 03/19/2015 6:54:07 AM PDT by pgyanke
There has been an less-than-productive discussion on this thread regarding the last words of Christ on the Cross. It could be because it started with the suggestion--right in the title--that Catholics don't understand Jesus. Not a great way to initiate dialogue and ecumenism.
I would like to take a different approach here. I would like to hear my Protestant brethren explain these words of Christ from the Cross:
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
What does it mean? Why did He say it?
Which is another strawman, as the Reformation and SS does not negate the magisterial office, and those in conservative evangelical churches (which are the Prots who hold most strongly to the primary Prot,. distinctive of the Reformation) who are known to reject basic doctrines are more likely to be corrected and feel uncomfortable then RCs in their churches.
Both those in actual evangelical churches - which are a result of commitment to common core Truths - typically require assent to basic Truths if one is going to lead, and effectually foster the same among the rest overall.
Likewise RCs are supposed to assent to basic truths, while like evangelicals, they have varying degrees of liberty in other things, whether officially sanctioned or implicitly allowed.
In a 2010 LifeWay Research survey 77 percent of American Protestant pastors (57% of mainline versus 87% evangelical) strongly disagree with same-sex marriage, with 6% percent somewhat disagreeing, and 5% being somewhat in agreement and 10 percent strongly agreeing. (5% of evangelical).
Only 3% of evangelical pastors (versus 11% mainline) somewhat agree that there is nothing wrong with homosexual marriage.
11% of evangelical pastors (versus 30% mainline) somewhat agree that homosexual civil unions are acceptable, with 67% of the former and 38% of the latter strongly disagreeing with homosexual civil unions. October 2010 LifeWay Research survey of 1,000 randomly selected Protestant pastors. http://www.lifeway.com/ArticleView?storeId=10054&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&article=LifeWay-Research-protestant-pastors-oppose-homosexual-marriage
A 2002 nationwide poll of 1,854 priests in the United States and Puerto Rico reported that 30% of Roman Catholic priests described themselves as Liberal, 28% as Conservative, and 37% as Moderate in their Religious ideology. 53 percent responded that they thought it always was a sin for unmarried people to have sexual relations; 32 percent that is often was, and 9 percent seldom/never. However, nearly four in 10 younger priests in 2002 described themselves as conservative, and were more likely to regard as "always a sin" such acts as premarital sex, abortion, artificial birth control, homosexual relations, etc., and three-fourths said they were more religiously orthodox than their older counterparts. Los Angeles Times (extensive) nationwide survey (2002). http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/reports/LAT-Priest-Survey.pdf http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_2_39/ai_94129129/pg_2
The survey also found that 80% of Roman Catholic priests referred to themselves as “mostly” heterosexual in orientation, with 67% being exclusively heterosexual, 8% leaning toward heterosexual, 5% completely in the middle, and 6% leaning toward homosexual and 9% saying they are homosexual, for a combined figure of 15% on the homosexual class. Among younger priests (those ordained for 20 years or less) the figure was 23%. ^
One-third of surveyed priests said they “do not waver” from their vow of celibacy, while 47% described celibacy as “an ongoing journey” and 14% said they “do not always succeed in following” it. 2% said celibacy is not relevant to their priesthood and they do not observe it. not celibate. ^
71 percent of priests responded that it always was wrong for a woman to get an abortion, 19 percent that it often was, and 4 percent seldom/never. ^
28 percent judged that is always was sin for married couples to use artificial birth control, 25 percent often, 40 percent never. ^
49 percent affirmed that it was always a sin to engage in homosexual behavior, often, 25 percent; and never, 19 percent. ^
To take one's own life if suffering from a debilitating disease: always, 59 percent; often, 18 percent; never, 17 percent. ^
A combined 15 percent of the clergy polled identified themselves as "gay (9%) > or more (6%) on the homosexual side." Among younger priests 23 percent did so. Los Angeles Times (extensive) nationwide survey (2002). http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/reports/LAT-Priest-Survey.pdf
17 percent of the priests said "definitely" , and 27% said "probably," a homosexual subculture'--defined as a `definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary'--exists in their diocese or religious order. ^
After examining the official web sites of 244 Catholic universities and colleges in America, the TFP Student Action found that 107 – or 43% have pro-homosexual clubs. TFP Student Action Dec. 6. 2011; studentaction.org/get-involved/online-petitions/pro-homosexual-clubs-at-107-catholic-colleges/print.html
39 percent of Roman Catholics and 79 percent of born-again, evangelical or fundamentalist American Christians affirm that homosexual behavior is sinful. LifeWay (SBC) Research study, released Wednesday. 2008 LifeWay Research study. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080606/survey-americans-divided-on-homosexuality-as-sin.htm
56% of Catholics overall (and 46% of the general public) believe that sexual relations between two adults of the same gender is not a sin, while 39%. of Catholics say homosexual behavior is morally wrong, (versus 76% of white evangelicals and 66% of black Protestants, and 40% of Mainline Protestants). 41% of Catholics do not consider homosexual behavior to be a moral issue. (Pew Research Center, Religion & Politics Survey, 2009; PRRI/RNS Religion News Survey, October 2010; http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Catholics-and-LGBT-Issues-Survey-Report.pdf)
Catholics testify [2010] to showing more support (in numbers) for legal recognitions of same-sex relationships than members of any other Christian tradition, and Americans overall. Almost three-quarters of Catholics favor either allowing gay and lesbian people to marry or allowing them to form civil unions (43% and 31% respectively). Only 22% of Catholics said there should be no legal recognition of a gay couple’s relationship. (PRRI, Pre--election American Values Survey, 9/2010; http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Catholics-and-LGBT-Issues-Survey-Report.pdf.)
This 2010 survey of more than 3,000 adults found that 41% of White American Catholics, 45% of Latino Catholics (versus 16 percent of White evangelical Christians, and 23% of Black Protestants) supported the rights of same-sex couples to marry, and 36% (22% of Latino Catholics) supported civil unions (versus 24% of White evangelicals, and 25% of Black Protestants). Among the general public the rates were 37 and 27 percent.
69% of Catholics disagree that homosexual orientation can be changed, versus 23% who believe that they can change. ^
19% of White Catholics, 30% of Latino Catholics, 58% of White evangelicals, 52% of Black Protestants and 29% of White Mainline Protestants oppose any legal recognition of homosexual marriage. ^
60% of Catholics overall, and 53% of the general public favor allowing homosexual couples to adopt children. ^
73% of Catholics favor laws that would protect gay and lesbian people against discrimination in the workplace, and 63% favor allowing homosexuals to serve openly in the military. For the general public the figures are 68% and 58% respectively. ^
49% of Catholics and 45% of the general public agree that homosexuals should be eligible for ordination with no special requirements. ^
Among Catholics who attend services regularly (weekly or more), 31% say there should be no legal recognition for homosexual relationships (marriage or civil unions), with 26% favoring allowing gay and lesbian people to marry, versus 43% of Catholics who attend once or twice a month, and 59% of Catholics who attend a few times a year or less favoring allowance of homosexual marriage. ^
27% of Catholics who attend church services regularly say their clergy speak about the issue of homosexuality, with 63% of this group saying the messages they hear are negative. ^
48% of white evangelical Protestants oppose letting homosexuals serve openly in the military, with 34% supporting this proposal, versus 63% of Catholics (66% of white) supporting and 23% opposing. Pew forum, November 29, 2010, http://pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Issues/Gay_Marriage_and_Homosexuality/gays%20in%20military%20full%20report.pdf
Bible Reading: the highest was 75%, by those going to a Pentecostal/Foursquare church who reported they had read the Bible during the past week (besides at church), while the lowest was among Catholics at 23% ^
Volunteer church work (during past 7 days): Assemblies of God were highest at 30%, with the lowest going to Catholics at 12%. ^
Donating Money (during the last month): Church of Christ churches were the highest at 29%, with Catholics being the lowest at 12% ^
American evangelicals gave four times as much money, per person, to churches as did all other church donors in 2001. 88 percent of evangelicals and 73 percent of all Protestants donated to churches. John Ronsvalle and Sylvia Ronsvalle, The State of Church Giving through 2004: Will We Will? 16th ed. (Champaign, Ill.: Empty Tomb, 2006),12. http://www.generousgiving.org/stats#
Data from a variety of researchers indicates that Catholics give one-third to one-half the portion of income that Protestants give. http://www.emptytomb.org/cathgiv.html
A Catholic survey reports that 4 percent of US Catholics described themselves as “very” involved in parish or religious activities other than attending Mass, and 11% as “somewhat involved, and 64% as “not involved at all.” Among weekly (or more) attendees (approx 22% of adult Catholics), 13% were very” involved, 29% “somewhat involved and 25% not involved at all.” http://cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/FRStats/devotionpractice.pdf
a third of Catholics surveyed, including 15 percent of highly committed church members, said one could be a good Catholic without believing Jesus rose from the dead. http://blogs.thearda.com/trend/featured/counting-catholics-church-of-immigrants-poised-for-growth/
66% of Catholics supported women's ordination to the priesthood, and 73% approved of the way John Paul II leads the church. Surveying the Religious Landscape: Trends in U.S. Beliefs by George Gallup, Jr. and D. Michael Lindsay (Morehouse Publishing, 1999). Copyright © 2004 -- The Gallup Organization www.gallup.com
80% of Catholics believe it is possible to disagree with the pope on official positions on morality and still be a good Catholic. Time/CNN nationwide poll of 1,000 adults, conducted by Yankelovich Partners, Sept. 27-28, 1995; subsample of 500 Catholics, MOE ± 4.5%
77% of Catholics polled "believe a person can be a good Catholic without going to Mass every Sunday, 65 percent believe good Catholics can divorce and remarry, and 53 percent believe Catholics can have abortions and remain in good standing. 1999 poll by the National Catholic Reporter. http://www.catholictradition.org/v2-bombs14b.htm
Comparing Catholics and other Americans, 44% of Catholics claimed to be "absolutely committed" to their faith versus 54% of the entire adult population, and donated about 17% less money to churches; was 38% less likely than the average American to read the Bible; 67% less likely to attend a Sunday school class; 20% less likely to share their faith in Christ with someone who had different beliefs; 24% less likely to say their religious faith has greatly transformed their life; and were 36% less likely to have an "active faith," (defined as reading the Bible, praying and attending a church service during the prior week.) Yet Catholics were 16% more likely than the norm to attend a church service and 8% more likely to have prayed to God during the prior week. Catholics Have Become Mainstream America, Barna research, July 9, 2007 https://www.barna.org/barna-update/faith-spirituality/100-catholics-have-become-mainstream-america#.VDZOGDRxnGg
Committed Roman Catholics (church attendance weekly or almost) versus Non-R.C. faithful church goers (see the below as as morally acceptable): Abortion: 24% of R.C. vs. 19% Non-R.C.; Sex between unmarried couples: 53% vs. 30%; Baby out of wedlock: 48% vs. 29%; Homosexual relations: 44% vs. 21%; Gambling: 67% vs. 40%; Divorce: 63 vs. 46% ^
Comparing 16 moral behaviors, Catholics were less likely to say mean things about people behind their back, and tending to engage in recycling more. However, they were also twice as likely to view pornographic content on the Internet, and were more prone to use profanity, to gamble, and to buy lottery tickets. ^
In a survey asking whether one approves or rejects or overall sees little consequence (skeptical) to society regarding seven trends on the family (More: unmarried couples raising children; gay and lesbian couples raising children; single women having children without a male partner to help raise them; people living together without getting married; mothers of young children working outside the home; people of different races marrying each other; and more women not ever having children), 42% of all Protestants were “Rejecters” of the modern trend, 35% were Skeptics, and 23% were “Approvers.” Among Catholics, 27% were Rejecters, 34% were Approvers, and 39% were Skeptics. (Among non religious, 10% were Rejecters, 48% were Approvers, and 42% were Skeptics.) Pew forum, The Public Renders a Split Verdict On Changes in Family Structure, February 16, 2011 http://pewsocialtrends.org/2011/02/16/the-public-renders-a-split-verdict-on-changes-in-family-structure/#prc_jump
50 percent of Protestants affirmed gambling was a sin, versus 15 percent of Catholics; that getting drunk was a sin: 63 percent of Protestants, 28 percent of Catholics; gossip: 70 percent to 45 percent: homosexual activity or sex: 72 percent to 42 percent. Ellison Research, March 11, 2008 http://ellisonresearch.com/releases/20080311.htm http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080312/study-behaviors-americans-consider-sinful.htm
Combined aggregate results from 9 surveys conducted from 2001 through 2004 show 71% of Protestants (68% of regular church goers) and 66% of Catholics (59% of regular Catholic church-goers) support capital punishment. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/gallup-poll-who-supports-death-penalty
73 percent of Catholics rejected Catholic teaching artificial methods of birth control. Catholic World Report; 1997 survey of 1,000 Catholic Americans by Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at the University of Connecticut
Only 20 percent strongly agreed with the Church teaching that only men may be ordained. ^
Of never-married adult females, 25% of Evangelicals, 11% of Catholics and 14% of Mainline Protestants professed never to be have had sexual relations. Countering Conventional Wisdom: New Evidence on Religion and Contraceptive Use, Guttmacher Institute, April. 2011
White evangelical Protestants are the only major religious group in which a majority (54%) favors completely overturning Roe v. Wade. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/roe-v-wade-at-40/
35% of white evangelicals and 52% of 59% of white Catholics see overturning Roe v. Wade as not that important. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/roe-v-wade-at-40/
64% of white evangelical Protestants [blacks make up 6% of all evangelicals] believe abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, as do 52% of Hispanic Catholics, and 41% of white Catholics, and 39% of black Protestants, and 31% of white mainline Protestants. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/public-opinion-on-abortion-slideshow/
31% of faithful Catholics (those who attend church weekly, 2004) say abortion should be legal either in "many" or in "all" cases.. 2004, The Gallup Organization Gallup Survey for Catholics Speak Out: 802 Catholics, May 1992, MOE ± 4%;
When ask to choose, three-fourths of all Protestant pastors surveyed said [2009] they are pro-life, and 13 percent said they were pro-choice. LifeWay Research; http://www.lifeway.com/ArticleView?storeId=10054&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&article=LifeWay-Research-protestant-pastors-share-views-on-gay-marriage-abortion
26 percent of Catholics (2007) polled strongly agree with the Church's unequivocal position on abortion Catholic World Report; survey of 1,000 Catholic Americans by Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at the University of Connecticut; http://www.adoremus.org/397-Roper.html
46 percent of Catholics who say they attend mass weekly accept Church teaching on abortion; 43 percent accept the all-male priesthood; and 30 percent see contraception as morally wrong. ^
More by God's grace.
RCs seem to imagine there was no Scripture until Rome presumed it was necessary for it to be. But the fact is that most of what we hold as Scripture was already held as being so, as seen by the abundant refs to it in the NT.
And which writings were held as authoritative without an infallible magisterium telling them so.
St Paul himself says repeatedly that he brought them Tradition (2 Thess 2:15, Phil 4:9).
And SS pastors preach orally, not just by writing. But while the apostles were in a class by themselves, what was the basis for the veracity of their preaching? The Roman premise of perpetual ensured magisterial infallibility (PEMI), or Scriptural substantiation?
Moreover, Paul not only enjoined obedience to the Scriptural truths he preached, but he also warned,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (2 Thessalonians 2:2)
Thus there must be a criteria by which Truth claims were judged. So what was it, Scriptural substantiation which the noble Bereans relied on PEMI?
This Tradition is the Gospel of Jesus which illuminated the Old Testament just as Jesus opened the eyes and ears of the Apostles on the Road to Emmaus.
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (Luke 24:44-45)
Do you realize how absurd your argument is? Showing souls from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ, as here and places as Acts 17:2; 18:28; 28:23, is consistent with Evangelical practice, not Cath. oral tradition which teaches such things as prayed to departed saints when there is exactly zero prayers addressed to any one else but the Lord, out of the over 200 which the Holy Spirit inspired in Scripture. Only pagans made supplication to anyone else.
Nor is it "remembering" after 1800 years what history "forgot" and is absent in Scripture
They must be on the same basis as the church began, that of Scriptural substantiation.
Can you provide us even one example of a prayer to anyone else but God in Scripture? Except by pagans?
Can you provide us with even one instruction on prayer to Heaven in which we are to address anyone else but the Lord ("Our Mother, who art in Heaven...)? Physically asking others in this realm to pray for each other is not the same, and do not support to communication btwn the two realms.
Can you provide us with even one example of created beings being able to hear and respond to all the prayers addressed to them? Angels and elders offering prayers as a memorial at the time of judgment does not do it.
Can you provide us with even one example of created beings from Heaven and earth communicating to each other without both having to be in the same realm somehow?
In fact, there are prayers for the dead written on the walls of the catecombs that date back to the Church's early beginnings.
And there were souls being baptized for the dead, and souls forbidding to marry, and to not eat meat, and other aberrations. Do Caths imagine if someone did something then it is holy tradition?
Given that this practice was demonstrably known and it wasn't condemned in Church councils shows that it is a very early and consistent teaching.
That is just the problem, that of accretion of errors being perpetuated as tradition since the church becomes the supreme authoritative infallible source, not Scripture.
Consider Matt 12:32
It has been, and shown to be refer to the resurrection.
Consider the words of St Paul in 1 Cor 3:15 where he explains what happens in judgement where each man's work is tried. What happens if his work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire".
But which only occurs at the Lord's return, (1Cor. 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) versus purgatory, which has souls suffering upon death. This fact alone disallows 1 Cor. 3 from referring to purgatory.
And the believer is not saved because he suffered this loss, but despite it. And the loss is not personal defects, but the souls he built the church with. See here .
1 Peter 3:19 makes reference to a place in the afterlife that is neither Heaven nor Hell. Is it Purgatory? We don't know, specifically.
It does not say is not Hades, but like Abraham's Bosom, (LK. 16:19ff) it likely was a compartment of Hades, while the only souls which are there were lost souls, such as were disobedient in Noah's day when the all were evil and only Noah and family found grace.
However, to say that Purgatory is absolutely not Biblical is much too easy. There is room for a teaching authority to explain.
Rather, to say that Purgatory is absolutely not Biblical is where the only clear evidence leads, but as that is superfluous to Rome, to say that Purgatory is Biblical is easy for her, as she is her own autocratic authority.
Yet to be consistent, this still would not provide them with the perfection of character, and which makes purgatory essential.
There is inconsistency here, as while the newly washed convert is said to be fit to go right to Heaven, yet that is not the same thing as perfection of character, "you must be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect", which RCs invoke.
For Purgatory is not to be forgiven, nor simply to atone for sins, but,
"...we will go to Purgatory first, and then to Heaven after we are purged of all selfishness and bad habits and character faults." Peter Kreeft, Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer, p. 224 )
And to think the "good thief" attained the perfection of character needed to be with God in the shirt time on the cross, is absurd. This takes many different kinds of trials, not just suffering.
And it is only in this life which provide it, that growth in grace is taught. Thus even Christ was made perfect through sufferings in this life, though not as attaining moral perfection, but by being tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)
One either dies in saving faith to be present with the Lord or one suffers in Hell and then the Lake of Fire. See debate here i had a little while ago.
That is a fantasy, as the reality is that the most liberal Pro denoms are those closest to Rome, and which herself is overall liberal (and what you do and effect is the evidence of what you really believe, not merely what you say: Mt. 7:20; Ja. 2:18).
Meanwhile, it is the Christians who are most opposed to Rome, and uphold the most basic distinctive of the Reformation, that of Scripture literally being the wholly inspired authoritative word of God (and which reject the Cath liberal revisionism she has been teaching for decades), that are the most conservative .
All without a central teaching authority. Which is the ideal, but which the presumption of Rome has turned Godly souls against.
If you move the comma you could question when the man might be with Him in paradise. “Verily I say unto thee today,thou shalt be with me in paradise” (someday). He probably didn’t have the heart or the time to tell the poor thief about purgatory!!!
Now that is funny, cause Jesus didn’t have the heart or time to tell ANYONE about purgatory.
yep still waiting...they do not even READING the bible is against the RC “rules’
I didn’t say the God head died...Jesus was raised from the dead and yes each personage of the God head has it’s own uniqueness and identity. But they were all one. That’s all I am trying to say!
This is where Sola Scriptura adherents and Catholics part ways in methodology. You stated on the other thread (referenced in the opening for this one) that Catholics live by the proof text. That is absolutely wrong and a projection on your part. You are thinking as a Protestant when you seek the proof text as you are here.
The Catholic way is to form our conscience to be of the mind of God. This informing is ongoing and diverse. Just this morning, I read the readings for today's Mass, this morning's Magnificat readings and a meditation. We aren't commanded to memorize proof texts from specific sources but to understand them so that we may internalize them to make moral decisions.
This is why I gave you a link to a good section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a starting point. It is just that... a starting point.
What I posted in #42 is Catholic theology on the subject summarized. It is absolutely correct (and as far as I have been able to follow the thread) no one has picked apart the truth of it, only attacked the messenger.
Now, there are lots of posts on this and the other that will take me a long time to get to. Any lurkers reading this, I will appreciate some patience. I am one person responding to lots of posters posting voluminous posts. I also have a job to do. God bless.
“This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things and we know his testimony is true.
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which if they were written every one,the world itself,I think,would not be able to contain the books that should be written.”
I am looking forward to your answer because I know it will shed much light on many of our differences and should lead to an eye opening discussion. Thank you.
There is no question the Church came under attack by those who sought to undermine Her from within. There is a stretch of approximately 40 years where most of the claims of abuse originated. There are stories of the "gay mafia" taking over seminaries and working to drive out conservative clergy in favor of their own. However... there are almost no incidents of reported abuse that have occurred since the year 2000.
We can fault the bishops for how they handled their PR and they certainly made mistakes as leaders... but they ultimately dealt with the problem. Society, on the other hand, continues with high rates of abuse. The Church simply remains a target of convenience.
Yes I was being sarcastic but the sarcasm comes is based on a simple truth that I thought was obvious. However, for clarity sake I will restate it as an assertion. There is no scripture that shows Jesus stating that a purgatory exists or is the next step in a sinners progress to heaven.
With regards to John 21:24, it is the statement of authenticity by John for the things that he had written. As for John 21:25 it is the statement by John that what he has written was a summary of the important things of Jesus’s ministry here on earth and not the whole of the record.
It was more than 40 years. It only became manifest in that timeframe due to publicity.
Which reduces the Lord's cry to the Father that He was forsaken to be mere rhetoric.
No it does not. The life of Christ is played out in the words of prophetic Scripture. His emotions and suffering are real. So is His desire to teach His disciples. "My God, my God, why have you abandoned Me?" isn't the full statement that is being made from the Cross. It is all of Psalm 22 by reference. In the Psalm, we read of His suffering but also of His triumph. As the Psalm says, " For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard."
Jesus wasn't abandoned by God on the Cross as the Psalm says He wasn't. If we believe in a Just God, what justice is there in abandoning His Son in the moment of ultimate obedience? None. Some have rationalized that God can't look on our sins... but then how can He look on us at all? After all, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Rom 3:23). There is more to the story than just the words that were uttered. It was a full statement of abject dejection as well as of impending triumph. Jesus is teaching His Jewish audience, specifically His disciples, what they are seeing and telling them this isn't the end of the story.
I said "most" not "all". Abuses occur at a certain rate for all walks of life. They are generally lower for the Catholic clergy except for this specific period of time. You can find abuses before that 40 year period and there have been a couple since 2000... but the high volume has ceased with the action taken by the Church.
Or commas. Greek did not have them.
The Catholics use this to cram every bit of their non-biblical 'traditions' into their doctrine.
Well; HE could have said it!!
Who keeps these records?
Where can this data be found?
Who indeed? This was generally not a public phenomenon until the Press jumped on it... while ignoring the higher rates of abuse on UN missions and in the US public schools. I'm glad they jumped on it... we cleaned house. Now if they would only jump on the others. I won't hold my breath, though.
Where can this data be found?
Beats me. I found some interesting links by Googling "Historical abuse by Catholic Clergy".
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