Posted on 03/19/2015 6:54:07 AM PDT by pgyanke
Bkmrk.
Pinging myself for later.
Psalm 22:1
Taking on the sins of humanity, He felt the objective consequence of separation from God (aka “descended to Hell”).
The question is... when Christ said “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”..... was he quoting Psalms 22, or was Psalms 22 quoting Christ?
Jesus took on the sins of the world. And by that, ALL sin. Great sin, small sin, current sin, past sin, future sin. By being sinless, he was the only one who could be the perfect sacrifice and atonement for sin. This is the act of empowerment that makes Jesus the arbitrator for us before the Father.
Since God is sinless and can not tolerate sin, at that moment, God had to remove his presence from Jesus. Thus completing the justice portion of the penalty for sin.
That’s always been my theory. The perfect, sinless, all-holy God the Father could not look upon sin, and God the Son had taken the sins of the world upon Him, on the cross.
Yes. Psalm 22.
That He has done this. It is finished.
(That’s us being forsaken, ot it would be if someone hadn’t taken our place,and we deserve it).
In the spiritual realm God turned his head from his son as he bore the sins of humanity. The spiritual suffering was more intense (if that’s the right word to use) then the physical.
I believe the messianic psalms say it as well.
How do Catholics interpret those words?
He was teaching from the cross. He was quoting a psalm that was said by David (Psalm 22:1) which had a prophetic meaning.
Seems to me that anyone in similar circumstances would have wondered or uttered something similar, albeit decidedly less poetic.
Well, I was born and raised Jewish.
But it seems to me that being nailed to a cross for days would be a horrific experience.
Since Jesus did have a body and was undoubtedly in unbearable agony for a long period of time, it doesn’t surprise me at all that he would have experienced a moment where he felt that God had forsaken him by allowing him to suffer so terribly.
Just my two cents.
For the first and only time in eternity, God the Father turned His back on Christ, the God-man who bore the sins of His people. Habakkuk declared of God, “Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor” (Hab. 1:13). God turned His back when Jesus was on the cross because He could not look upon sin, even-or perhaps especially-in His own Son. Just as Jesus loudly lamented, God the Father had indeed forsaken Him. Because Jesus died as a substitute sacrifice for the sins of the world, the righteous heavenly Father had to judge Him fully according to that sin.
Also, anyone who understands both Rome and the gospel should never promote ecumenism.
He said it as a sincere response to what He was feeling at that moment; after an eternity of union with the Father He experienced separation for the first time— due to taking on the burden of the sins of the world. As to what it means in a broader theological sense, it (i) Shows that Jesus fully experienced suffering during this act— he was not shielded from it; and (2) is one part of the fulfillment of the prophesied words of the Psalmist in Psalm 22, providng another proof to all men that Christ was who he claimed to be for the ages.
Psalm 22 English Standard Version (ESV)
22 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me, from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer,
and by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are holy,
enthroned on the praises[a] of Israel.
4 In you our fathers trusted;
they trusted, and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried and were rescued;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by mankind and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they make mouths at me; they wag their heads;
8 “He trusts in the Lord; let him deliver him;
let him rescue him, for he delights in him!”
9 Yet you are he who took me from the womb;
you made me trust you at my mother's breasts.
10 On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother's womb you have been my God.
11 Be not far from me,
for trouble is near,
and there is none to help.
12 Many bulls encompass me;
strong bulls of Bashan surround me;
13 they open wide their mouths at me,
like a ravening and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint;
my heart is like wax;
it is melted within my breast;
15 my strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to my jaws;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 For dogs encompass me;
a company of evildoers encircles me;
they have pierced my hands and feet[b]—
17 I can count all my bones—
they stare and gloat over me;
18 they divide my garments among them,
and for my clothing they cast lots.
19 But you, O Lord, do not be far off!
O you my help, come quickly to my aid!
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dog!
21 Save me from the mouth of the lion!
You have rescued[c] me from the horns of the wild oxen!
22 I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will praise you:
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him,
and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or abhorred
the affliction of the afflicted,
and he has not hidden his face from him,
but has heard, when he cried to him.
25 From you comes my praise in the great congregation;
my vows I will perform before those who fear him.
26 The afflicted[d] shall eat and be satisfied;
those who seek him shall praise the Lord!
May your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the Lord,
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before you.
28 For kingship belongs to the Lord,
and he rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship;
before him shall bow all who go down to the dust,
even the one who could not keep himself alive.
30 Posterity shall serve him;
it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation;
31 they shall come and proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn,
that he has done it.
Many people forget that the people of the day had the scriptures memorized. When Jesus cried out those words the people who were standing around would have completed Psalm 22. Psalm 22 would have been ringing in their memory forever.
Picture if you will a person standing in a room and starting to sing a well known song. Oh say can you see.... you just naturally put the next words in your thoughts... by the dawns early light...
I believe when Jesus cried out the words of the Psalmist that the people would have naturally just finished the words of the Psalmist....
Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.[b]
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.[c]
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[e] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, Lord, do not be far from me.
You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my people;
in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you[f] I will fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
those who seek the Lord will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the Lord,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the Lord
and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
declaring to a people yet unborn:
He has done it!
“Since God is sinless and can not tolerate sin, at that moment, God had to remove his presence from Jesus. Thus completing the justice portion of the penalty for sin.”
I’m sure you are right on the mark here.
It was common for rabbis to utter the first sentence of a Psalm to put the Psalm in the hearer’s mind. Read the Psalm and you’ll see why He did it.
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