From Rome to Christ

Not many people get the opportunity to attend seminary. In an amazing way I have attended two. The first was training for the Roman Catholic priestÂhood in Ireland and the second at a conservative Evangelical seminary in England.

Raised a Catholic . . . but not knowing God Like most boys in the Republic of Ireland in the 1980s, I was brought up a Roman Catholic. My parents taught me to live a good life, say my prayers, and attend mass every Sunday. I believed there was a God, but I didn’t know him personally. I prayed as my mother taught me, but I never knew whether or not God was really listening. I attended confession monthly and did many penances. Conscious of my sinfulness, I hoped that God would accept me into heaven if I did enough good works. I tried to live the best life I could. It was like balancing the accounts, hoping that my credits (good works) would cancel my debits (sins). Zealous to please God, I was just eleven years old when I decided to become a Roman Catholic priest. I told the local priest, but he said I would have to wait until I was eighteen before I could enter the seminary.

During my teenage years I got involved in much sinful behaviour. I rebelled against God and disobeyed his commandments. I loved my sin, but I hated that miserable life and started to cry out to God. I realise now that God was working in my heart. He showed me I was a sinner. I longed to be right with him. This became the focus of my life. I knew that I needed to be saved from my sins. I went on a pilgrimage to a famous Roman Catholic shrine. I ate oatcakes, drank black tea, and crawled on my knees around the Stations of the Cross over three days to do penance for my sins. I fasted and meditated but never knew pardon for sin. I wanted to know forgiveness, but how?

Training for the priesthood At the age of nineteen, and after checking different possible organisations, I finally decided to join the Society of Missions to Africa (SMA). They are a society of priests who live together in small communities in different parts of the world, seeking to convert pagans to the Roman religion. I entered the Roman Catholic Seminary located in Maynooth, County Kildare, Ireland. During my two years at seminary, I learned about religion and philosophy but there were no biblical studies. I attended daily mass and monthly confession but, alas, there was no teaching on forgiveness for sin. We had set times of prayer as a community – morning, evening, and night. I heard many talks that were focused on pleasing God by doing charitable works and buying favour with God through the church. I also heard a lot about how to use psychology to counsel people spiritually. Not once did I hear how to be reconciled to God through Christ who alone could forgive my sins.

I began to read the Bible (a Protestant translation my parents had given to me). As I read it, I asked the priests serious questions about the religious rituals in the Roman Catholic faith, but they couldn’t show me any scriptural basis whatsoever for so much of their superstition and their many traditions. I discovered that the Bible does not promote the veneration of Mary as practiced in the Roman Catholic Church. The official teaching of the Roman Church is that Mary does not necessarily answer prayers but rather intercedes on the Catholic’s behalf and prays for them. However, the Bible teaches that she is a sinner: in the famous ‘Magnificat’ she is found praying to God her Saviour. Mary knew she had sinned and we find her rejoicing in God her Saviour, the one conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit – Jesus Christ her Lord.

I realised that rosaries and prayers to the saints have no scriptural basis. Mary is addressed in Roman Catholic prayers (eg ‘O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee’), but the Saviour teaches us to pray to the Father directly. Indeed, the Bible warns us against ritualistic prayer. This described me exactly: outwardly very holy and pious, but inwardly my heart was sinful and corrupt. Also, the Roman Church teaches its followers to pray to the saints. There is a saint for almost every circumstance, such as St Christopher for travel, St Anthony for lost property, St Martin de Porres for healing, St Joseph for the dying, St Vincent de Paul for the poor, and St Jude for lost causes. Unable to find anything in Scripture to support these things, I asked the priests many questions, and I was told that these Church traditions could not be questioned.

I was conscious of my sin and longed to have assurance of salvation. I asked the priests but I was told that we could never be sure of salvation until we died. I was instructed to attend the priest for confession, but I did not find that in Scripture either. The Bible instructs us to confess our sins to God, not to human priests. I also realised that as a priest I would have to hear people’s confessions and absolve them. I was confused. How could I forgive other people’s sins, when I did not even know forgiveness myself? I now realise that the Lord was lifting the veil from my eyes to show me that true faith and forgiveness for sin is to be found in Christ alone.

Eventually, I left the Roman seminary in 1995. The Society had decided that I was not suitable, but the Lord, through his Word, had shown me the errors of Rome and that I shouldn’t continue training for the priesthood. I had entered the seminary thinking that I would find God’s answer to my sins. When I left, I thought that I had finished with God – but he hadn’t finished with me! Over the next two years I lived in Dublin and continued my search for God. I went to various Protestant churches and also met people from different cults. One cult told me that if I was to be baptized again, then I would be born again. This sounded too much like the Roman Church and its teaching of justification by works, so I had nothing more to do with them.

Going to England I went to London in preparation for nursing studies. On the first night I met a man who told me how I could know forgiveness for sin. He gave me a leaflet that emphasized the need to trust in Jesus Christ alone. I read this leaflet many times, but still had no peace with God. Although well physically, I became very depressed spiritually.

I knew that I was condemned if I was not converted. The Bible told me that if I did not believe then the wrath of God abode upon me. Then I read ‘There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit’ (Rom. 8:1). This was a constant challenge to me. I was alone in a huge city with no one to turn to for spiritual help. How my heart yearned to be right with God.

While pursuing my nursing studies, I met some students who seemed to know God. I attended their church where the Bible was central to the whole service. The sermon was preached from the Bible – that was something completely new to me. Deep down I knew these people were genuine Christians. I asked many questions and started to attend the church regularly. About this time, a small Christian group was meeting in my halls of residence. I went along aiming to disrupt the meetings, but slowly began to be drawn to Christ. I saw that they had something that I didn’t have – peace with God and a real love for Christ. They knew the reality of ‘Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ’ (Rom. 5:1). One of them gave me J. I. Packer’s book, Knowing God. I read the book and saw that I too could know God in a personal way.

My conversion One Sunday morning, 8th February 1998, I was listening to a sermon from Luke 10:30-37 about the Good Samaritan. The preacher spoke of Jesus Christ being like the Good Samaritan – coming to help us in our wretched sinful state – while revealing that the Holy Spirit gives new life to lost sinners. He also urged the listeners to repent of sin and trust in Jesus Christ alone for forgiveness. I called upon Jesus Christ to save me, ‘For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved’ (Rom. 10:13). There and then, I knelt down in my room and prayed, ‘O God, I know that you have sent your Son Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners. Will you save me? I trust in Christ alone and ask that you would come into my life by the power of your Holy Spirit and make me new.’ I felt a huge weight of guilt and sin taken from my heart. As soon as I opened my eyes a deep sense of peace came over me. At that moment I knew that I was a Christian and truly forgiven of all my sins. The Bible became the living Word of God and he was speaking to me as I read. I realised that we are not saved by works but by grace, ‘For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast’ (Eph. 2:8,9). I was baptised in London as a believer in September 1998. After my baptism I struggled with temptations and trials, but the Lord was my constant refuge: ‘God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble’(Psa. 46:1).

My life as a Christian On my first visit back to Ireland, I did not know of a Christian church, so I went to mass with my parents. I realised the priest was re-enacting a sacrifice that was accomplished once and for all on the cross of Calvary (Heb. 9:26; 1 Pet. 3:18). For this reason, I couldn’t attend the Roman Catholic mass any longer. As a young Irish man, swearing was second nature to me. Very soon after my conversion this dried up. Worldly pursuits like drinking in pubs and going to nightclubs ceased. Prayer and communion with God became a whole new area of experience. I had learned formal rote prayer as a young boy, but now I began truly to pray from my heart. This is still an amazing experience to me: to be able to lift my heart to God as my Father and know that he is listening and will answer my prayers according to his will.

My family were upset that I had left the Roman Catholic faith. At first they thought it was another religious phase I was going through, but they soon realised that this was different. However, the Lord gave me opportunities to share the true gospel with them. About a year later my youngest brother was converted. What joy filled my heart!

Since my conversion, the Lord has taught me so much from his Word. I am especially thankful to one man from the church in London who helped me to study the Bible. We did a complete overview of the Scriptures together, as well as an in-depth study of the doctrines of grace (Calvinism). The glorious truth that God is sovereign in salvation and reaches out in mercy to sinners is truly humbling and amazing. That God, the Creator and Sustainer of the world, should call wretched sinners to himself illustrates his grace. What a joyful day it will be when all his people are united with him in heaven.

Christian service and ministry About a year after my conversion I was seeking the Lord about serving him. One Lord’s Day evening after the service I was praying to the Lord asking him where he wanted me to serve. I read 2 Timothy 3:16-4:5 and was profoundly challenged. I had never studied this portion of God’s Word before. It was impressed on me that this was how the Lord wanted me to serve him – to preach the Word. I graduated and worked for a year in the National Treatment Centre for Alcohol and Drugs. Some of the patients were hardened criminals; others were involved in sordid areas of society due to their addictions. I realised the psychological treatment was not dealing with their real problem: their unpardoned sin. I couldn’t witness openly to the patients but some enquired what kept me through the difficult times in my life. I told them that it was my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they were amazed. Both my houseÂmate and a Roman Catholic friend were converted and baptised during this time. It was a great privilege to see the Lord use even me to win sinners to Christ. I conducted a Bible Study in Colossians with some Jehovah’s Witnesses. They began to seek Christ but their leaders visited and put an end to it. I pray for these people, that the Lord would open their eyes to his truth. As I taught young boys in a Crusaders Class I soon realized that children can be taught the deep truths of Scripture in a simple, understandable way.

The Lord opened up the way for me to study at London Theological Seminary. The lasting memories of my time there are of the nightly prayer meetings with fellow students and the godly men who taught us theology and prepared us for the ministry.

These 'journey pieces' are all of a kind. They weave a tale that artfully touches on every conceivable Protestant hangup and misconception in an effort at polemic.

Every conceivable Protestant hangup and ~~mis~~conception used for polemic is found within the pages of God's written words and we are instructed (as well as all Christians) to use that scriptural polemic to correct and teach...

Why is it Catholics fail so completely in that polemic???

At the Mass we are at Calvary. We are at the Last Supper. We are in the Garden of the Resurrection. We are not present at a recreation, but at the actual event: once and for all.

You're not going to finds any words from God that he left your religion a 'time machine'...Paul and John and Philip were given traveling accommodations by the Spirit but they actually went somewhere...All you have to do is look up at the priest (unbiblical) in the robe (unbiblical) to know that you didn't go anywhere...And Jesus is not traveling around the world being sacrificed for the last 2000 years...

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus went to heaven and he sat down...He did not get back up...He sent his Holy Spirit because he was not going to and did not get back up...

God is not bound by Time and Space, and neither are His sacraments. At the Mass we are really and truly at the Last Supper. We are present at His Passion - not an echo, not a repeat performance, but at The Passion.

But you are not present at his Resurrection...That's a little weird, don't you think...There's nothing special about someone hanging on a cross...Arising to heaven after he died (with witnesses) is a big deal...A huge deal...Why not focus on that???

Mat_28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

He bids us eat His Body and drink His Blood. His life, His death and resurrection - the most important events that every were or ever could be - are waiting for us at Mass. Indeed, He is waiting for us, truly present in His Body in every Catholic Church!

Jesus is not waiting for anyone at a Mass...Jesus is in heaven...

Do you know where Chrisians are spiritually...The are certainly not sitting in some Catholic Church pretending Jesus is inside some wafer...

Eph_1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph_2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Jesus doesn't come to earth to be handed out to saints and sinners alike...Christian saints and only Christian saints are spiritually in heaven...Why aren't you???

And that's the Christian polemic God expects his children to give out to those who are lost...

It's not time travel - not in the HG Wells sense anyway. There's no sightseeing or tourism. At Mass we remain solidly in our time and place - and yet we are present at the Passion.

The word for this is anamnesis. Christ's anamnesis is not simply a passive process of memory or memorialisation, but a process or act by which we actually enter into Christ's Passion. His Passion is truly made present for us.

I guess that you haven't come across this concept: however it needn't be alarming. At Mass Jesus gives His very self to us for our food. This is His one and only Sacrifice at which He is both High Priest and Victim.

After that: the idea that we are present at His Passion - while profoundly true - is almost an afterthought.

God is not bound by time and space: making us truly present and truly a part of the greatest moment in both history and eternity is nothing to Him.

There are some things that ring hollow in this post:

“I fasted and meditated but never knew pardon for sin. I wanted to know forgiveness, but how?” How did this person not hear of forgiveness of sins? He says that he went to mass and monthly confession but there was not teaching on the forgiveness of sins.That is not credible because confession is all about the forgiveness of sins.

“During my two years at seminary, I learned about religion and philosophy but there were no biblical studies.” This again is not credible. Calvin and Luther went to Catholic seminaries and they learned about the Bible; they just disagreed with the Church on certain matters.

“As I read it, I asked the priests serious questions about the religious rituals in the Roman Catholic faith, but they couldn’t show me any scriptural basis whatsoever for so much of their superstition and their many traditions.” So not one priest could explain these “superstitions?” Come on, this is so trite and typical of the “Why I left the Catholic Church” stories. I cannot believe that Catholic seminaries are full of idiot priests who have no idea what is in the Bible.

“I was conscious of my sin and longed to have assurance of salvation. I asked the priests but I was told that we could never be sure of salvation until we died. I was instructed to attend the priest for confession, but I did not find that in Scripture either. The Bible instructs us to confess our sins to God, not to human priests.” Aye here’s the rub. This poster wants absolute assurance right now that he is saved forever. Luther also had a deep need for such assurance. But the psychological need of the poster is not a good reason to reject Catholicism.

In the letter of James it states “Therefore confess your sins to one another.” 5:16 In the early church it was the practice to require confession before the whole congregation and this certainly has a Biblical basis.

This post follows a familiar script for those who have no knowledge of the Church today.

If any corroborating evidence were needed, St Paul speaks about the Eucharist in Corinthians.

Yes Paul did...And Paul said to eat this in remembrance of Jesus suffering on the Cross and the blood that was shed...

And when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.

”Now this is just shameful. You've likened Christ's Sacrifice on the cross - the sacrifice of the Lamb reenacted faithfully by His Church - to a pretence; to a game of dress-up.

Reenacted by his Church??? At which point do you beat him senseless...At which point in your ritual do you hammer the spikes thru his body, and thrust the spear in his side...

Where in the world do you see Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross by eating a piece of bread??? Use your head...

And here's the clincher:

1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Mat_26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Paul knew and admitted it was bread, not flesh...And Jesus knew and admitted it was wine, not blood...

How do you let some guy up there in a robe tell you differently???

I think in any local protestant, orthodox, or catholic body of Christian worship, you’ll have some who ‘get it” and are saved and some who never were!.

Amen to that statement!

No country, church, religion, man or woman can save your soul for your.

You have to save your sould yourself.

Others can certainly help or hinder your efforts. It's why that it is so important to seek the truth for yourself. You do that by reading/listening and understanding the Words of the Almighty.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Ask forgiveness for your past sins, get baptised, start living right (follow the commandments). Grace will follow afterwards in ever increasing measures which will help you overcome the sins of this world and prepare your soul for the next.

For All:

2 Timothy 2

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

I was going to refrain from this thread... but you have called me back. No one else could have but a misinformed Catholic who doesn't truly understand their faith. We don't lose Catholics who understand their faith but unfortunately our modern bishops have done a very poor job of catechizing the faithful.

HaHaHa...That is you main accusation...Always...Just poorly catechized...I have no doubt that every Catholic who ever left your religion was well versed in what you just posted...Their fortune was that they searched the scriptures to see if those things were so...And found they were not...

It a shame that the bible is not only in just the Latin Language...Then you could really dupe them, eh???

Remember that Christ commanded us to eat His Body and Blood. His words are unmistakeable.

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Christ literally gives Himself to us as real food and real drink. There's nothing to misinterpret here. There's no room for manoeuvre.

Moreover when we consider the language used in the Gospel of John, the literal interpretation becomes undeniable.

In John 6:50-53 we encounter various forms of the Greek verb phago, 'eating.' . As in 'Sarcophagus'.

However after the Jews begin to express incredulity at the idea of eating Christ’s flesh, the language intensifies.

In verse 54, John begins to use trogo instead of phago. Trogo is a decidedly more graphic term, meaning 'to chew on' or to 'gnaw on'—as when an animal is ripping apart its prey. The text is closer to:

Whoever gnaws on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

If anything more needed to be said: St Paul is also abundantly clear

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

All this: not to mention Christ's 'This is My Body ... This is My Blood' at the Last Supper.

The idea that Christ somehow can't fulfill His own words because He's sitting at the Right Hand of the Father is, excuse me, ludicrous.

God is God. He is outside of time and space. He made time and space. Making us present at His Passion is nothing to Him.

OK, it's getting late here. I'm off home to bed. God bless us all.

Why I left the Catholic Church” stories. I cannot believe that Catholic seminaries are full of idiot priests who have no idea what is in the Bible.

I certainly can...Their attempts to engage in scripture on FR are pitiful...

This poster wants absolute assurance right now that he is saved forever. Luther also had a deep need for such assurance. But the psychological need of the poster is not a good reason to reject Catholicism.

Christians are not into psychology and philosophy...That's a secular thing...Christians have spiritual needs and when a religion can not fulfill those needs, it's time to dump that religion...

In John 6:50-53 we encounter various forms of the Greek verb phago, 'eating.' . As in 'Sarcophagus'.

In verse 54, John begins to use trogo instead of phago. Trogo is a decidedly more graphic term, meaning 'to chew on' or to 'gnaw on'—as when an animal is ripping apart its prey.

That is so, so lame...You don't think we know what eat means???

So you take that wafer and when it hits your mouth it turns into some barbequed baby backs with plenty of grizzle and you really got to chew and gnaw on it...

Trouble is; Paul says it's only bread and Jesus says it's only wine...

-— Their attempts to engage in scripture on FR are pitiful... -—

When someone finds Luther’s doctrine of “the Bible alone is the sole or ultimate rule of faith” in the Bible, let me know.

What's that got to do with Catholic priests ignorance of scripture??? Is that your excuse; Catholicism is not based on bible alone (or at all) so there's no need for anyone to learn what the bible says???

Oh, and BTW...There are millions upon millions of Christians who have found that doctrine of scripture alone, in the scriptures...

Instead of denying what you can't find (I suspect you don't even look), might be smart to ask yourself WHY you can't find it when so many millions of others can...

Everyone talks about what these words mean - words they quote outside of their original language - and then also have to admit that many of these words are meant to be symbolic as well. And so everyone admits it’s a complex subject.

But everyone also wants those who disagree with them not merely to die - no, that’s not enough. But to go to hell and suffer for all eternity.

Sometimes I imagine Jesus is on an alien spaceship, on His way back to Earth after spending time on other planets that needed Him. As the Earth comes into view, the alien Commander looks at Jesus and asks, “Now, you’re sure they won’t be hostile?” And Jesus replies, “Don’t worry, everything will be fine. I stripped my teachings down to the bare bone and told them that my greatest commandment was to love one another as I love them, and to love each other as they love themselves. I’m telling you, I left them no wiggle room to screw it up. Everything will be fine.”

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