Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not mans standard.
Also, the scrolls found at Qumran ("Dead Sea Scrolls") included fragments of the Tanach as well as Essene literature and tefillin scrolls (emphasis mine):
wow — old thread :)
Other than what I address here, the rest of your post to Mrs. Don-o is your opinion of what she posted, so really proof of nothing.
Regarding Gal 6:16:
Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
I submit what you said is undeniable, that is, St. Paul is addressing two groups of people here. However this doesn’t necessarily negate what Staples implied in the link Mrs. Don-o provided. This is because, taking the verse literally and with no extraneous thought, the reader is forced to realize St. Paul is wishing both the Galatians and the Israel of God “peace and mercy”.
Is this all that can be reasonably inferred from that verse though? That is, are we to believe St. Paul wished “peace and mercy” ONLY on the Galatians and the Israel of God?
No of course not (or else we have to believe St Paul would never wish US “peace and mercy”) and here is where the verse can be interpreted in two ways.
One, it might be saying what you are saying, and that is “to as many Gentiles who walk in this way, peace and mercy, and peace and mercy on the Israel of God”.
Or it could also be saying, “As many of you Galatians who walk this way, peace and mercy, and peace and mercy to the whole Israel of God” (or the Church)
The point is there is no way (divorced from traditional Christian teaching that is) to know to which group of people St. Paul was referring when he wrote the phrase “as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them”. He could have meant all Gentiles who “walk according to this rule” or all Galatians who “walk according to this rule”.
Either way the verse makes sense, it’s just that it has different implications as to who the “Israel of God” is, depending on how one interprets the first group of people. But we can’t force either belief into that verse to use it as a proof-text of identifying the “Israel of God”.
I’m not sure Staples was using it as a proof text in that manner (he seems to be using it descriptively), but if he was he’d be as in error as you. Regardless, there’s nothing in Gal 6:16 itself that forces the reader to disbelieve the Church is the “Israel of God”.
In that letter that is exactly what he was doing.
>>Or it could also be saying, As many of you Galatians who walk this way, peace and mercy, and peace and mercy to the whole Israel of God (or the Church)<<
Only if you corrupt the original Greek text like the Catholic Church did.
>>Regardless, theres nothing in Gal 6:16 itself that forces the reader to disbelieve the Church is the Israel of God.<<
It's obvious that he was NOT calling them one and the same.
No.
Have you any FACTS that you wish to bring to the table that they LISTENED?
Your chosen religion has the AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING it wants.
Just ask it!
Until a LOT of 'learned Catholics' have listened, heard, chewed, swallowed, digested, and finally produced an announcement that
"Lo and Behold! It WAS Mary!!!"
I posted YOUR churches scripture; and you make THIS claim???
All scripture, inspired of God,
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2:15).
Ok then; we Prots are WAITING for ANY Catholic to produce the 'teaching' of Mary's sinleessness, the Assumption, the Rosary...
I didn’t imply that they listened. I just said he corrected them. Whether they listened would be a matter of speculation.
More Baghdad Bob type rhetoric.
Have you NO shame?
1 Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.
2 For by this the ancients obtained a testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the world was framed by the word of God; that from invisible things visible things might be made.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a sacrifice exceeding that of Cain, by which he obtained a testimony that he was just, God giving testimony to his gifts; and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Henoch was translated, that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had testimony that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.
7 By faith Noe, having received an answer concerning those things which as yet were not seen, moved with fear, framed the ark for the saving of his house, by the which he condemned the world; and was instituted heir of the justice which is by faith.
8 By faith he that is called Abraham, obeyed to go out into a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he abode in the land, dwelling in cottages, with Isaac and Jacob, the co-heirs of the same promise.
10 For he looked for a city that hath foundations; whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith also Sara herself, being barren, received strength to conceive seed, even past the time of age; because she believed that he was faithful who had promised,
12 For which cause there sprung even from one (and him as good as dead) as the stars of heaven in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 All these died according to faith, not having received the promises, but beholding them afar off, and saluting them, and confessing that they are pilgrims and strangers on the earth.
14 For they that say these things, do signify that they seek a country.
15 And truly if they had been mindful of that from whence they came out, they had doubtless time to return.
16 But now they desire a better, that is to say, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered Isaac: and he that had received the promises, offered up his only begotten son;
18 (To whom it was said: In Isaac shall thy seed be called.)
19 Accounting that God is able to raise up even from the dead. Whereupon also he received him for a parable.
20 By faith also of things to come, Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau.
21 By faith Jacob dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and adored the top of his rod.
22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the going out of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months by his parents; because they saw he was a comely babe, and they feared not the king's edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, denied himself to be the son of Pharao's daughter;
25 Rather choosing to be afflicted with the people of God, than to have the pleasure of sin for a time,
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasure of the Egyptians. For he looked unto the reward.
27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the fierceness of the king: for he endured as seeing him that is invisible.
28 By faith he celebrated the pasch, and the shedding of the blood; that he, who destroyed the firstborn, might not touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea, as by dry land: which the Egyptians attempting, were swallowed up.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, by the going round them seven days.
31 By faith Rahab the harlot perished not with the unbelievers, receiving the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I yet say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, Barac, Samson, Jephthe, David, Samuel, and the prophets:
33 Who by faith conquered kingdoms, wrought justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, recovered strength from weakness, became valiant in battle, put to flight the armies of foreigners:
35 Women received their dead raised to life again. But others were racked, not accepting deliverance, that they might find a better resurrection.
36 And others had trial of mockeries and stripes, moreover also of bands and prisons.
37 They were stoned, they were cut asunder, they were tempted, they were put to death by the sword, they wandered about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being in want, distressed, afflicted:
38 Of whom the world was not worthy; wandering in deserts, in mountains, and in dens, and in caves of the earth.
39 And all these being approved by the testimony of faith, received not the promise;
40 God providing some better thing for us, that they should not be perfected without us.
Plus a whole lot of extra stuff...
Your cuteness is cloying.
(Responding to your last five sequential but almost simultaneous messages).
Bless your heart, you really should look at the video.
Are you SURE of what you type??
No way!
Merely ignoring it is a MUCH better way to handle things that do NOT produce faith in the TRUE church.
Sure it is!
But a LOT more stuff gets swept under THAT rug, too!
Not to worry; Rome has THAT down pat!
History (as well as lying eyes) show RUINS located there today.
What does the teachings of the Fathers say about that?
Let me understand please: are you saying that Gal 6:16 is not written to us today as well?
That's not true. The Church can't contradict Scripture,Apostolic Tradition, or Natural Law. Which also cannot contradict each other.
Just ask it.
An excellent example of this salutary lack of authority is the following declaration that "The Church has no authority whatsoever" (LINK) to admit women to the ministerial priesthood.
Second paragraph from the bottom.
You're welcome.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.