Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[Elsie]

Sometimes they command popes.

The GOOD ones or the EVIL ones?

[Elsie]

What part of this sounds un-Catholic-like?

I don't know what you mean.

[Elsie]

[Elsie]

And then there is...

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...

only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

---

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

---

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

---

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Elsie]

Although it DOES look like Smith invented the computer MOUSE!

It is shown 3 times!

[Elsie]

...anything that has to do with caring.

Like the type, colors and age of any clothing her mate might be seen in public wearing?

[Elsie]

That the Catholic denomination is the “church He built.”

[Elsie]

Protestantism, to the contrary, stole the Christian faith from those it fooled.

Oh?

Protestantism doesn't teach that, "It is indeed the only work of God, to believe in Him, Who God sent." ?

[Elsie]

It is a way to lie about the plain meaning of the scripture.

Good explanation.

Now, how do you explain the ADDITIONS to 'scripture' that Rome teaches?

[Elsie]

You do so by fast-forwarding to some other passage that you like better, or by suggesting that the context makes the passage somehow void.

Is it just me; or does this sound quite Catholic like??

[Elsie]

The Holy Scripture is written by Catholics for Catholics. To the Protestants it is a minefield indeed.

It appears that your rabies shots are not uptodate.

---

Nope; no mention at ALL about Catholics here...

---

NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

[Elsie]

... billions of people, over the years, interpreting Christianity each by his/her own standards would have been nothing short of a disaster and we all know it.

Well, let's see...

The USA was mainly PROTESTANT and below the Rio Grande, all the way to Patagonia was Catholic.

How have the Nations fared???

[Elsie]

How have the Nations fared???

Can you say Banana Republics?

I thought you could...

---

 

 

 

Mayflower Compact

 

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, 1620.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

BELATED

King James Alert...

[Elsie]

What I do not like, is to be called a Protestant.

OOOOH!

Now the loudmouths here will use it ALL the more!!!

[Elsie]

It’s time for you to quit badgering the women posters that don’t belong to your belief system.

What about us poor men?

Will WE still be allowed to be harangued by this small group of Baghdad Bob Mini-Mes??

[CynicalBear]

>>The Church in the NT is visible<<

Who said it wasn't? Each of those assemblies is "visible" when they meet. Each individual is visible when they proclaim the gospel.

>>has distinct features<<

Of course they do. They are a called out people. They proclaim a risen Lord. The exhibit the fruits of the Spirit.

None of what you posted there requires a centralized hierarchy. Each assembly includes each one of those elements.

[CynicalBear]

>>You do so by fast-forwarding to some other passage that you like better, or by suggesting that the context makes the passage somehow void.<<

Actually we read the entire passage and compare it to ALL of scripture to be able to put it in context. Putting it in context makes nothing void. It puts in in perspective and gives understanding. Catholic interpretation leaves conflicts within scripture. The Jesus you portray has sinned by eating blood.

[CynicalBear]

Well put. Thank you.

[CynicalBear]

>>can you imagine, for just a moment, what a fiasco the world would be, and what Christianity would be 2,000 years after Christ if there were no organized religion??????<<

Yes! It would be just as the apostles taught it should be. The example of the Catholic Church illustrates how power corrupts.

>>Say thanks to Catholicism for the Christianity that we have today.<<

What a mess that is. The paganism of Catholicism has infiltrated most of the organized religions that came out of her. I will thank God that He allowed us despite the attempts of the Catholic Church to understand His true word. God's will defeated the attempts of the Catholic Church to keep His true word from the masses.