Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
By your own admission in post 4602 your faith is in the Catholic Church. That's a problem and it's yours.
It certainly is not the Jesus of scripture.
The Catholics even claim that all of the apostles were present when she died as was Jesus. Surely the appearance of Jesus on earth would have been significant and would have been recorded. Of course that would also be contrary to Jesus own words that He would not return until the end of days.
It's clear the scripture points to Jesus alone and not to Mary.
They are Protestants? Who knew??
Well, I have to go back in history here. I was baptized in the pool in Vietnam, sometime in 1970. It was by a Southern Baptist Chaplain, named Chaplain Hall. I knew mostly nothing about any denominations. I was at Mountain Home AFB, Idaho, previous to going to Vietnam when I first came to the Lord, or maybe he came to me, I don't know which, but the guys took me to a church in Boise, Idaho, called Cole Comunity Church. They did not have a denominational name, which I thought was kind of weird. Anyway, the Chaplain in Vietnam told me I was being placed into the membership of Trinity Baptist Church, San Antonio, Tx, though I still did not know much about what that meant. I then went to Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, TX. Over several months, I visited Lutheran churches, Methodist churches. I was pretty turned off by them. I didn't even think they preached about Jesus there, remembering that each church is independent, but those Del Rio churches were pretty much apostate, as far as I could tell. I went to an Assembly of God church, which I thought was ok. Then I went to 1st Baptist church, and I listened for a couple of months, to see what they preached. I thought it was good, so I joined up, but I was still pretty active with the Navigators. When I was at Travis AFB, I was a member of a SBC in Fairfield, CA, but after about 15 years, I felt like they were not so much into preaching the Word anymore, so I left and attended Calvary Chapel in Fairfield. Each SBC is totally independent of others, so each stands or falls on it's own. Maybe this was a tad long, but you asked, so here it is 😄
Air Force regards.
“you” was plural, a reference to the Protestant Reformation in general.
Christ is one mediator. Saints are intercessors. I cannot explain the same thing ten times because people can type faster than they read.
the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep. (1 Cor. 11:23-30)the "body" and "blood" refers to the consecrated Eucharist because they cite the words of Christ referring to his body and blood at the Last Supper. When Protestants deny that, they look comical and do no favor to their religion. now everyone can see that Protestant theories are not based on the Holy Scripture altogether, but rather on your notions what the Scripture should or should not be saying.
I do not remember the original context, nor even who the poster was, but it is my general opinion based on threads like this that Protestants as a group do not follow Jesus at all: they only see in the Bible what they think should be there, and they do not pray to saints who demonstrably did follow Christ. I understand it is upsetting to hear, but this is what you (collectively) need to hear.
See 4,768. People who have a habit of reading the Bible don’t ask questions like this.
Your religion would garner greater respect if when something is in the scripture you recognized it to be there.
My opinion is, that John D Lee got what was coming to him, but a whole bunch of others, got away with a ton of murders.
Mary: κεχαριτωμενη, normatively translated "full of grace" or to obfuscate the meaning, "greatly favored" or something like that (Luke 1:28)Jesus Christ: πληρης χαριτος, "full of grace"
St. Stephen: πληρης πιστεως και δυναμεως, "full of faith and power", Douay is in error here.
I learned Revelation 18:4, and also everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 from the Holy Catholic Church; and with the help of the saints of the Holy Catholic Church I retain what I learned.
the very Catechism of the Catholic church
424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”8 On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.9 (683, 552)
Is there anything in this section of the Catechism, 422 through 455, that you find to be in error?
Thank you for your service, and your straight answer. I find it correlates well with my research.
Since you volunteered you were re baptized by an SBC chaplain, a follow up question begs an answer; are you still a member of an SBC church ? thanks
Being baptized in a church or by a pastor of that church, does not by default make you a *member* of that church, contrary to Catholic thinking on the matter.
Church membership is a different thing and often simply a technicality for being able to participate in the church government.
Catholics really need to learn to look at things from a different perspective.
This is a lesson I learned in my own family. My parents were my daughter’s Godparents. Or, technically, Dad as a Catholic was a sponsor (godparent) and Mom as a Methodist was a witness. Which is ironic because my Mom did a better job of raising me as a Catholic than many nominal Catholics do raising their own children. Dad was hurt when my daughter said she was going to be baptized at a non-denominational church, thinking it meant she was rejecting him as her Godfather. They had a long discussion about this and, with Mom’s help, Dad came to a better understanding of that different perspective.
That is one reason I remain part of this thread, to come to a better understanding of the perspective that my daughter has, as well as other family members with different beliefs. I thank God that they are more accepting of my beliefs than some FReepers on this thread.
As is common in your posts on this thread, you ignore everything that determines what a passage means, to latch onto a falsehood. It has been demonstrated sufficiently for all objective readers.
Those whose mind was closed around an idea they brought to the passage were never open to the meaning of the passage.
As the saying goes, “Nothing is more dangerous than an idea, when you only have one idea.”
I did not expect you to treat the passage objectively. I’ve responded to and corrected your errors for the benefit of those who will read this exchange and who seek truth.
Thanks, and blessings to you in 2015.
It seems to me you could just swap the to and from ids and your thoughts apply to yourself. I hope you have good works of Messiah to go with them in 2015, as I wish for us all.
“It seems to me you could just swap the to and from ids and your thoughts apply to yourself. I hope you have good works of Messiah to go with them in 2015, as I wish for us all.”
The passage means what it means. I accept the argument, context, sentence structure and language. I accept the only conclusion.
Those who have been told what it means can only accept one idea they bring to the passage.
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