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Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?
self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; blessedvirginmary; catholic; mary; mystery; mysterybabylon; prayer; rcinventions; vanities; vanity; worship
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To: Mike Darancette

“she is blessed with all that is good and merciful in mankind.”

Never in Scripture does God say this. Ever. Totally made up. Totally makes Mary into an idol.


441 posted on 12/15/2014 9:32:54 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: ravenwolf
Jesus said he would come for those who believed at the last day.

He did? Really? Where is that Scripture? What do you make of Matthew 25 about the sheep and the goats? Notice that both are surprised at their verdicts.

442 posted on 12/15/2014 9:33:10 AM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: ravenwolf

In the context of “praying to Mary”, the word “pray” simply means “ask” or “request”.

I’ve seen a half-century-old book on how to write an application for a US patent. The example application contains many occurrences of the word “pray”, as in “Applicant prays that the USPTO grant a Letter of Patent for the invention herein disclosed”.

Does that mean the patent attorney worships the Patent Office?

Of course not.

And the fact that Catholics use the word “pray” to describe requests of Mary likewise does not mean we worship her.


443 posted on 12/15/2014 10:01:23 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: ShadowAce

seriously you work?

and if not are you the prot type who stays home on the Lords Day and ‘churches themselves’?

Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam


444 posted on 12/15/2014 10:05:28 AM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: Gamecock

Haha. No, it is the Protestant that must reconcile with their Founder. You reject what he embraced. Why is that?


445 posted on 12/15/2014 10:06:02 AM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Servant of the Cross

Unlike y’all, we don’t follow a mortal man.


446 posted on 12/15/2014 10:07:53 AM PST by Gamecock (Joel Osteen is a preacher of the Gospel like Colonel Sanders is an Army officer.)
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To: goodwithagun
Well, let's look at some signs universally considered when determining a cult.

Single charismatic leader. - can you say pope?

Say they are the only true group, or the best so why go anywhere else. - Do I really need to say?

Hyped meetings, get you to meetings rather than share with you. - How many times have we been told to "go to a mass"?

They do not allow their teachings or practices to be questioned. If you question, then automatically the group assumes that something is wrong with you.

They will push you to obey by using guilt. They will demand complete “submission” to the group, its leaders and its teachings.

Mandatory, regular attendance

Separating the believers (the in crowd) from the non believers - who can take communion in a Catholic Church?

447 posted on 12/15/2014 10:11:50 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Servant of the Cross
You reject what he embraced. Why is that?

Answered in #440

448 posted on 12/15/2014 10:13:59 AM PST by xone
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To: CynicalBear; moder_ator

And now another claiming Catholicism is a cult.


449 posted on 12/15/2014 10:18:39 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: xone
Luther was a Catholic.

As were all "Protestants" before the Reformation. At the founding of Protestantism, all of the Marian devotion that this thread rejects, were fully embraced by your Founders.

p.s. the Bible is Catholic too.

450 posted on 12/15/2014 10:20:41 AM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: ealgeone

Great discussion on this thread. Thank you for posting.


451 posted on 12/15/2014 10:22:43 AM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: don-o

He did? Really? Where is that Scripture?


(Come) was just a word i used which is not in the scripture, i have to add to and take away from scripture the same as every one else other wise i might make you all feel bad, Ha,Ha.

John 6
44 No man can come to me,
except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What do you make of Matthew 25 >>>>>>>

Probably the same as you do if you understand it correctly.

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Luke 6
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

What it means to me is if i see some one who is hungry or thirsty or needs help i should help them as i would expect them to help me.

Also Jesus said the least of these, so it is not up to me to try to determine if they belong to Christ or not.

Notice that both are surprised at their verdicts.>>>>>>>

We are who he is talking to, i would not understand if he had not explained it.


452 posted on 12/15/2014 10:23:08 AM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: goodwithagun
And now another claiming Catholicism is a cult.

As John McClaine said in the first Die Hard movie, "Welcome to the party pal!"

This is typical of an open (non ecumenical) thread as this. As a Catholic myself I don't like it either but: some pretty harsh things have been said about non-Catholic Christians too (maybe not here but in other threads). And there's not much that can be done about it anyway.

According to the rules disparaging whole denominations is permitted; we're just not allowed to disparage FReepers. It's the only way it can be, really, or else all thought would be shut down quick. It's just unfortunate some (on both "sides") have to be so vitriolic.

453 posted on 12/15/2014 10:25:51 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Servant of the Cross

I guess you skipped over the fact that those opinions didn’t pass scriptural muster and were not included in Lutheran Confessional documents, or what Luther thought personally isn’t relevant to Lutherans when it is in conflict with the Word of God. We don’t worship or pray to other people.


454 posted on 12/15/2014 10:31:12 AM PST by xone
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To: Servant of the Cross
p.s. the Bible is Catholic too.

If so, you'd think they would read it once in awhile, would sure clear up the baloney doctrines of the OTC.

455 posted on 12/15/2014 10:32:51 AM PST by xone
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To: Mike Darancette

Mike, the invention of a “fence” around Christ through which we must somehow enter for access prior to going through HIM to the Father, is clearly satanic. Of COURSE Satan would use Mary, a godly woman who was certainly blessed of God, as a point of deception. Far from a harmless, sentimental notion, the idea that one can entreat Mary to “put in a good word with Jesus” is hellish and demonic and under the curse of God (see: Galatians).


456 posted on 12/15/2014 10:33:42 AM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: DuncanWaring

And the fact that Catholics use the word “pray” to describe requests of Mary likewise does not mean we worship her.


I can except that and what about the idea that she is in heaven which is what i tend to believe and why would we believe she is in heaven.

In other words is Mary and many other saints in heaven because we are living in the last day, the day that Christ is lifting us up or is she and other Saints there because of a special resurrection in which i do not believe?


457 posted on 12/15/2014 10:35:45 AM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: Servant of the Cross

“At the founding of Protestantism, all of the Marian devotion that this thread rejects, were fully embraced by your Founders.”

That the Reformers recovered the Gospel of Grace is more than one could hope for. To think they would set straight more than a thousand years of error in a brief lifetime is unrealistic.

They did work to make Scripture open and available to the common man and set off a reexamination to see what God revealed. In this sense, God used them to correct and recover.

No one claims they were perfect. No human is. For His own reasons, God uses flaw-ridden humans and an occasional donkey or fish.


458 posted on 12/15/2014 10:36:14 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: spacejunkie2001

We ask for her intercession with God.


459 posted on 12/15/2014 10:43:03 AM PST by steve8714 ("Burn it down for Michael Brown??")
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To: FourtySeven

Thproblem is that this is a vanity posted for the sole purpose of causing a fight. It is not an article, and some FReepers are incapable of respectful discussion. For example, at this posting Catholicism has been called a cult twice.


460 posted on 12/15/2014 10:48:24 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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