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Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?
self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; blessedvirginmary; catholic; mary; mystery; mysterybabylon; prayer; rcinventions; vanities; vanity; worship
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To: annalex; CynicalBear

Why is Jesus Christ so small in that painting?


3,261 posted on 12/26/2014 5:32:24 PM PST by redleghunter (... we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God-Heb 4:14)
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To: annalex

Semi-Pelagianism is a weaker form of Pelagianism (a heresy derived from Pelagius who lived in the 5th century A.D. and was a teacher in Rome). Semi-Pelagianism (advocated by Cassian at Marseilles, 5th Century) did not deny original sin and its effects upon the human soul and will; but, it taught that God and man cooperate to achieve man’s salvation. This cooperation is not by human effort as in keeping the law but rather in the ability of a person to make a free will choice. The semi-Pelagian teaches that man can make the first move toward God by seeking God out of his own free will, and that man can cooperate with God’s grace even to the keeping of his faith through human effort. This would mean that God responds to the initial effort of person, and that God’s grace is not absolutely necessary to maintain faith.

The problem is that this is no longer grace. Grace is the completely unmerited and freely given favor of God upon the sinner; but, if man is the one who first seeks God, then God is responding to the good effort of seeking him. This would mean that God is offering a proper response to the initial effort of man. This is not grace but what is due the person who chooses to believe in God apart from God’s initial effort.

Semi-Pelagianism says the sinner has the ability to initiate belief in God.
Semi-Pelagianism says God’s grace is a response to man’s initial effort.
Semi-Pelagianism denies predestination.
Semi-Pelagianism was condemned at the Council of Orange in 529.

http://carm.org/semi-pelagianism


3,262 posted on 12/26/2014 5:36:54 PM PST by redleghunter (... we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God-Heb 4:14)
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To: boatbums
>>What better example of elitist cultic garbage is there?<<

It is after all one of the universally accepted signs of a cult. That and the one leader on earth.

3,263 posted on 12/26/2014 6:09:53 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: boatbums
>>Maybe all those people prior to 1950 are still in Purgatory? ;o)<<

They must have come up with some sort of "mystical" explanation.

3,264 posted on 12/26/2014 6:11:17 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: redleghunter
>>Why is Jesus Christ so small in that painting?<<

It's what Satan wants the world to see. That and the image of Christ still dead on the cross.

3,265 posted on 12/26/2014 6:12:44 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

“The only true ekklesia of God are those who have been “called out” by God to be the body of Christ. Their allegiance and trust is in Christ alone through faith alone. “

Keep in mind that you are trying to communicate two concepts that are foreign to the catholic mind - Christ’s statement about His ekklesia and people being directly connected to Christ through faith.

They do not have a frame of reference for either.

They believe in a physical, worldly organization that stands alone in entitlement.

To fill this spiritual vacuum they must substitute tradition for unchanging truth, change Mary into a benevolent and loving step-stone to a relationship with Him, add pagan worship practices, a priestly class, idols to parade around as they are alive and powerful, etc.

It is always worth sharing the truth, but no human likes to have their sense of reality invalidated. Their only response is louder claims of authority.

Think the scene in The Wizard of Oz, when Dorothy sees behind the curtain and “the wizard makes louder and more threatening self-important claims.

Once someone comes to Christ in faith, as you know, it is evident that the claims are not only false, but circumvents the Gospel.

Share in love. Those who remain vocally anti-Christian identify themselves as the most in need of prayer.


3,266 posted on 12/26/2014 8:16:54 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: terycarl

You appear think that I am confused.


3,267 posted on 12/27/2014 2:19:36 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: rwa265

Neither

This is what Rome teaches


3,268 posted on 12/27/2014 2:21:03 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex

You and STA just will NOT give up that Hear The CHURCH misdirection, will you?


3,269 posted on 12/27/2014 2:25:14 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl

ANYTIME?
So THIS is why C’s are so much better off than P’s!


3,270 posted on 12/27/2014 2:27:22 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl

..well, because I said so!!!! that’s why!

Yes, this is EXACTLY Rome’s attitude!


3,271 posted on 12/27/2014 2:33:21 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl

..well, because I said so!!!! that’s why!

Yes, this is EXACTLY Rome’s attitude!


3,272 posted on 12/27/2014 2:33:22 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex

Steve is dead


3,273 posted on 12/27/2014 2:34:21 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex

So is Paul


3,274 posted on 12/27/2014 2:35:00 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex

Make our faith perfected in good works in imitation of thee.
Amen.

Here! Take this woman if you want her; she is my SISTER.


3,275 posted on 12/27/2014 2:38:09 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums

Purgatory

Gump: You never know when yer gonna get out


3,276 posted on 12/27/2014 2:42:48 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Think the scene in The Wizard of Oz, when Dorothy sees behind the curtain and “the wizard makes louder and more threatening self-important claims.

We gots a cuppla WIZTARDS POSTING HERE!


3,277 posted on 12/27/2014 2:46:06 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Usually there are reasons “Rome” says anything. It is not made up.

Dogmas date into the time of the early church, and a lot of discussion went on as they worked out how to express what the church faithful believed.

but ordinary folk don't have time or energy or even the desire to get deeply into such things, so we go along with the core beliefs as expressed by the experts. We see God's goodness all around us, in our children, in the poor and sick, in science and nature, and in art music and stories.

God feeds us in the bread and wine. The family and marriage is holy because Jesus lived in a family. Parties echo the happiness of heaven. If we stray, we know that not only will Jesus forgive us but that he will seek us out like the good shepherd. And when we mourn, we know Christ will wash away our tears.
most Catholics learn about how God loves us and expects us to live by stories, not from quotations taken out of context.

Interpreting the bible for dogma without a PhD in Greek, history, and how the early church fathers taught what it means is sort of like the thinking of some people who eschew mainstream medicine and think they know more than those of us who studied 8 years plus 3 to 5 years of hands on training. lots of them on FR and all I can do is roll my eyes up in exasperation.

3,278 posted on 12/27/2014 3:17:13 AM PST by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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Comment #3,279 Removed by Moderator

To: ealgeone; redleghunter; CynicalBear; EagleOne; metmom; daniel1212; roamer_1
Catholicism views Mary and Jesus. Mary is much, much bigger than Jesus. I'll pray to Christ when the storms come.

Indeed. As with Israel wanting a king, so the lost look to mortals whom they exalt above that which is written, even to attributing uniquely Divine attributes, as they know not Christ, or little of him, who alone is set forth as the only heavenly intercessor btwn man and God, and the only heavenly intercessor to whom believers are only exhorted to come, and who is immediately accessible and all sufficient savior.

And by Him believers have direct access into the holy of holies in glory (now if i would take more advantage of that).

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:5-6)

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (Hebrews 2:17-18)

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:15-16)

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25)

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Hebrews 10:19-22)

Blessed be God.

Were is any of this said of a queen of Heaven, or a distinct class of "saints" in Heaven? Where is there even one prayer or offerings to anyone else in Heaven but the Lord - except by pagans - amid the approx. 200 (my count) prayers in Scripture ?

The answer is that it is not, but the veracity of this rests upon the fallacious premise of perpetual magisterial Romish infallibility, which also is an invention not promised, seen or necessary in Scripture. Among other inventions or distortions.

3,280 posted on 12/27/2014 4:33:35 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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