Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
It’s cynical in a good way doncha know.
This link explains more:
It is important to note that the prefix "co" in the title Coredemptrix does not mean "equal to" but rather "with", coming from the Latin word cum. The Marian title Coredemptrix never places Mary on a level of equality with her Divine Son, Jesus Christ. Rather it refers to Mary's unique human participation which is completely secondary and subordinate to the redeeming role of Jesus, who alone is true God and true Man.
The official doctrinal teaching of the Church regarding Mary’s role as Mediatrix is that each and every grace that comes to us from God simultaneously comes through the willed intercession of Mary due to the theological reality that each Person of the Holy Trinity has freely chosen to be dependent upon Mary’s cooperation. God the Father chose to depend on Mary’s “fiat,” or “yes,” when He requested, through the Archangel Gabriel, that Mary freely give her assent to becoming the virginal Mother of Christ; God the Son freely chose to become dependent upon Mary’s maternal care, nourishment and protection as His true Mother; finally, God the Holy Spirit chooses to be dependent upon Mary in the distribution of the grace of God to the human family.
Wow....sheer utter blasphemy.
Jesus said this in John 14:6. I am the Way, the Truth, the Life, no one comes to Father but through Me.
The way this is written in the Greek, the "I am" is structured to emphasize that it is only through Christ this happens. He is in essence comparing Himself to all other claimed avenues to Heaven and declaring it is only through Him, and Him alone, can anyone come to the Father.
I find no mention of Mary in any of this. Nor can you support any of this with Scripture. If any of the above proposed catholic blasphemy were true, Jesus, being the son of Mary, would have noted that exception in John 14:6. That He did not is telling.
That catholics believe otherwise is also telling.
Isn’t Mary already considered Mediatrix of all graces by the Catholic Church?
How can you be sure they can't hear you? Scripture indicates otherwise. BTW, Catholics don't pray to our parents, either.
"For as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body, so also is Christ. For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. For the body also is not one member, but many. If the foot should say, because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?"
"Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member."
"Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God, Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone"
"For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
"And if one member suffer any thing, all the members suffer with it; or if one member glory, all the members rejoice with it."
QUOTE:
When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.
The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind.Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.
Are you claiming that Catholics bow down and worship idols in contravention of God's Commandment? That is demonstrably untrue. Anyone interested in learning the truth regarding Catholic teaching on this and any other point can easily discover it with a little basic research.
As a matter of dogma no, but some do believe that that title will eventually be dogmatically defined as applied to Mary. Also "Co-Redemtrix", a related but not identical term.
A 2,000 word, 11,000 character (rounded) reply of testimonies in opposition to a 15,000 word, 87,000 character polemic! And i thought i sometimes posted prolix replies!
Need proof and in context.
That statement is talking about Mary’s willingness - her answer “yes” to God - to become the Mother of Jesus.
The petition holds that her willingness (intercession) helped to bring Him into the world.
It does NOT mean that WE have to go through Mary to get to God.
Did the Holy Spirit speak through the prophets?
Nor was the grace given to Mary of a "of a unique kind" as we are "freely given" that grace as well.
Ephesians 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
The construct that Mary was "full of grace" or special in any way regarding grace is a construct totally made up by the Catholic Church and is false.
catholicism currently teaches that as none come to the Father but through Christ, none comes to Christ except through Mary. I don’t have that quote with me. Will have to post later.
So much for praying to Mary.
Already supplied. Take it or leave it.
No...it goes beyond that. It is saying Mary is the one making things happen...she says Joe gets grace or Betty does, etc..willed intercession of Mary.
I believe we are wandering off topic, here. But, to answer your question, in a sort of circuitous way, of course, the Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets. From Paul's famous letter to the believing Jews, the epistle to the Hebrews, 1:1ff, "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways..."
But, where do any prophets tell us that Mary would be immaculately conceived (herself), be a Co-Redemptrix, the Queen of Heaven and deserves, therefore, veneration? I am not interested in "traditions of Rome" or advice from its personnel. I am asking, where in the Scriptures are these doctrines taught?
Nice attempt at twisting words. However, the command reads not to make graven images or bow down to them. No Catholic can deny that they make graven images and in fact to bow down to them.
None of what you posted tells us people in Heaven can or cannot hear us.
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