Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[metmom]

Most of us have been there.

Aside form the potential to compromise a screen name, which RC’s don’t seem to think is a valid reason for not putting out, once they find out, they’ll take any crackpot, far out statement (be it out of context or not) that anyone at any time who they perceive to be loosely affiliated with your denomination or church and ask you why you believe it too.

It’s a very dishonest attack technique.

You then become guilty until proved innocent and you could spend the rest of your life denying it and it still wouldn’t be good enough for them.

[metmom]

Interesting contrast in the responses to the RM’s directive to not make it personal.

You said OK and dropped it.

[metmom]

The Scriptures say Mary was "highly favored" (obviously, as she was chosen for this work: to be the instrument through which the Messiah would be born). But those who believe in Christ and accept Him as Savior are ALSO chosen, and James exhorts us to also, perform good works, not as a condition of Salvation, but so that others may come to know Him, through us. We are instruments of God's hands, feet, tongues, and body until Christ's return.

Absolutely.

And I agree with you whole heartedly on the rest of your post.

[Elsie]

I think I’ll read the BOOK instead.

[Elsie]

Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.

[metmom]

1 Peter 2:20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

[metmom]

If all this were directed to Mary alone, Mary tour court, it would be idolatry and would be damnable. It would be a disordered love for her, and a disordered honor, worship of some goddess or half-goddess.

If it's directed to Mary at all, it's still idolatry and you cannot then be giving God your 100%.

Jesus told us to love the Lord our God with ALL our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

If we give any portion of that to Mary, then we are not giving God ALL of it.

And if we are giving God all of it, there's no room left for Mary.

[metmom]

I was thinking on this recently and it came to me that praying to created beings not only presupposes they have the ability to hear our prayers no matter where we/they are, how many others are praying the same prayers at the same time, but also the power to KNOW the thoughts and intents of our hearts. How many prayers do we say in our minds instead of out loud? Can they hear those, too? Can they know our motivations for what we pray about or the ability to know the will of God ahead of time and how it fits into His divine plan? I always believed that the devil couldn't hear my thoughts, couldn't read my mind, but, if angels and "saints" DO have that power, then they are gods, too! How else can it be explained? Some may rationalize this by claiming we don't know what power those in heaven have, but if we ascribe the SAME almighty abilities to them as to God, we are over the line into idol worship and cannot deny it logically. Far too much is swept under the rug so that the dogmas can be taught as true and the reason they are true is nothing more than "because we said so".

You said it.

Interesting thing, isn't it?

This is a great example.....

Here we clearly and plainly post what we believe, and yet some people here will not cease and desist from badgering us about our denominational affiliation on the pretense that only that way can they know what we believe, as if group think represents what we as individuals think and believe.

They totally ignore the very words that we ourselves post stating as such and imply that only by knowing some statement of faith, can they understand where we're coming from.

Aside from times where we refuse to reveal personal information, where have any of us not clearly stated what we believe, and yet we're accused of it all the time?

[metmom]

Does it bother you to have someone in your alliance who teaches that abortion is not murder, that there is no soul created until the baby takes a breath outside the mother's womb. Therefore there is no scriptural prohibition against abortion.

THANK YOU! for providing such a stellar example of WHY none of us play the *What church do you go to game.* That is EXACTLY the sort of thing I referred to in my recent previous post.

[Elsie]

Ask Elsie INDEED!!!

 

 

Let's start at the begining of this story; using the BOOK that Catholicism has spent SO many manhours to bring to the world.

 

We ALL agree that it is TRUTH, or we wouldn't be here.

Rome says that the TRUTH needs to be examined in the light of tradition.

 

So; to find out what PARADISE is; let's find out some other stuff; first...

 

 

 

#1.  Read the material.

 

Luke 23:39-43   Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

³⁹ And one of those robbers who were hanged, blasphemed him, saying: If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

⁴⁰ But the other answering, rebuked him, saying: Neither dost thou fear God, seeing thou art condemned under the same condemnation?

⁴¹ And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this man hath done no evil.

⁴² And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom.

⁴³ And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

#2. we find 3 folks in a very precarious position; nailed to crosses for crimes commited.  (This is NOT a time to determine whether the charge against Jesus was valid or not)

#3. Folk number one said something.

#4. Folk number said something.

#5. Folk number 3 (Jesus) said (to Folk #2) THIS DAY... ( 24 hours worth? or 'til sundown?).

#6. Folk number 3 (Jesus) said (to Folk #2) SHALL BE WITH ME...

#7. Folk number 3 (Jesus) said (to Folk #2) ...in PARADISE.

 

Seems to me, that we should first find out the whereabouts of JESUS 'this day'.  THAT would tend to tell us just where this 'paradise' is located; right?

[Elsie]

Ask Elsie INDEED!!!

Or....

Thank you for calling Heaven's Hotline!

Every call is important to us.

 

 

If you wish to access the Heaven's Hotline FAQ sheet, Press 1 to be connected to Catholic Answers

If you wish to access the Heaven's Hotline FAQ sheet en Espanol, Pulse 2 para ser conectado a Catholic Answers

If you wish to talk to GOD Himself, please realize His time is limited. Many other representitives and even His mother is available to handle your request, praise, plea, prayer and/or worship/adoration/veneration.

Stay on the line and one will be with you shortly.

Thank you for calling Heaven's Hotline! All lines are presently in use...

 

 

 

After receiving an answer from Heaven's Hotline, Press 3 to hear instructions for the correct amount of alms to be given to the poor.  (Or Hail Marys...)

(Cue background music: Ave Maria )

[Elsie]

He is very knowledgeable concerning Biblical Truths.

Then why can't he remember if he fed the goats or not?

--Mrs.ELSIE(Ya old coot! Your shorts are on BACKWARDs again!)

[Elsie]

I like the way you parse things directed your way.

Each sentence deserves, and gets, your rapt attention.

[Elsie]

(With apologies to Alfred P. Doolittle)

I’m getting zotted in the morning! Ding-dong!
The bells are gonna chime.

Pull out the stopper! I’ve told a whopper!
But get me to the TRUE church on time!

[nicmarlo]

I understand how big AND willing God is. Do you understand that Salvation, and being saved, is a personal, individual choice due to wo/man’s Free Will and,therefore, God does not presume to force anyone into making the choice He desires? That those who have accepted Christ as Savior do not face Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment leading to eternal damnation but the Judgment Seat of Christ where only one’s works are judged as by fire and rewards received, if any, therefrom?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Elsie]

. Elsie is a he and that has been clearly pointed out many, many times in these threads.

Now WHY are you trying to upset another of his beloved fantasies?

Don't you know he is udderly taken by me?

[Elsie]

I just occasionally forget because it’s a woman’s name.

That's ok; Honey.

We won't impale you on a stake for it.

[Elsie]

Include the source information with your Bible quotes: Book, Chapter, verse.

Thanks. This'll help the Catholics a lot.

We PROTS; not so much. We know how to find out the source.

[Elsie]

Can you explain ? I do not see that rule in this link. The KJV is not copyrighted.

It's not a 'RULE' AFAIK, but it IS common sense and a courtesy to others as well.

[Elsie]

John (1:1-5) traces Christ's geneology back to "In the beginning":

Let US make man in OUR image.

The non-TRInitarians never seem to devolve into BInarians; even when these verse are presented again and again.