Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
Has anyone ever started a thread on Mere Christianity?
Amen brother, I agree completely!
Wrong again. The grace is given by faith.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
“Not ignoring anything.”
Yes, you are. See the next thing:
“Baptism does NOT save.”
(For what I believe is the third time) It is grace that saves. Baptism gives us grace. Now, will I have to repeat this yet again in the next post while you claim to not be ignoring anything?
“Faith in Christ Jesus saves.”
Grace saves. We get grace through faith in Christ. And, before you ask, there is only one source of grace but there is more than one way Christ gives it to us.
“Christ said to enter heaven, you MUST be born again; you MUST believe in Him.”
And He also gave us Baptism and that gives us grace.
“Read the Gospel of John.”:
Already have. Many times.
“Read Romans.”
Already have. Many times. You might want to look at Romans 6.
“You are taking out of context part of a line from one Scripture and basing dogma on that text which contradicts what Jesus Himself said is required to be saved.”
No. I took NOTHING out of context. There are many verses that speak of the importance of Baptism.
“That is disingenuous, at best.”
That assertion is disingenuous at best.
No, but what an awesome idea.
Is it public domain now?
Of is that an issue?
Maybe just excerpts and links.....
“Go ‘baptize’ the terrorists. You think that will save them?”
If the terrorist asks for Baptism - which would indicate a change of heart - yes, it would help him by giving him grace. It helped Paul did it not? Acts 22:16 Was Paul not something of a terrorist?
“Reread John 3 again,”
You reread it. I bet your the one who doesn’t understand it.
“... because you’re missing what Christ said about eternal life.”
No, I’m not.
“I’ve posted excerpts, here.”
I’ll check it out. I looked. Verse 5 - as I always knew - is about Baptism.
“You are replacing what Christ said is required for salvation with physical rituals created by church dogma.”
No. Jesus gave us things to aid us. Jesus was a physical being when He took on flesh and He knew we, as physical beings, would welcome such gifts. Hence, Baptism is something given to us by Christ and through which we receive grace.
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Ephesians 2:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:This is Grace: that I have to do NOTHING to add onto what Christ has already done for my salvation, only believe in Him and accept Him as my Savior.9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Period.
The queen is the bride of Christ.
I’m not sure if it’s public domain...but we could start a weekly chapter reading...and just post excerpts from it, and what it means to us, or how we understand it as relates to the Scripture, or whatever.
That is a dangerous accusation to make. You should rescind it.
Dangerous how?
Dangerous how?
What else is deception? Where else would it come from?
Galatians 4:2 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
“Oh quit you whining and changing the subject.”
I’m not whining nor changing the subject. The subject is what it is.
“Where are my posts that are anti Catholic?”
I think they speak for themselves.
“You know, pointed at an individual Catholic here at FR?”
Again, I think they speak for themselves.
“So you got tricked, big deal.”
Oh, so you employed trickery? Is that what you’re saying?
“Maybe you are upset that when you tried to trick me I didn’t fall for it?”
I never once tried to trick you. I mistakenly thought posted someone else’s comment to you. I already said that. There was no “trickery” nor any attempt to “trick” anyone. I have no need for such things. It seems to me the easiest thing in the world to do is allow you to simply dig your own hole. You have followed through exactly as expected.
“Here is the post where you tried to trick me into watching a video.”
There was no trick. The link clearly says YOUTUBE. You know what youtube is, right? And I posted EXACTLY this: “Wow, this is how your post comes across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M8szlSa-8o “
“As your answer to me, how juvenile.”
It wasn’t an answer to you. It was a comment about how your post came across. Hence, I wrote, “Wow, this is how your post comes across”.
“I never click on video links unless it is said what it is about.”
I don’t care.
“And no, I haven’t looked at it.”
Well, that’s not what this says: “Without backup for your claims, you post a south park video??”
“And I don’t care to have debates with links to videos.”
Again, I don’t care.
“So unproductive.”
Your judgment as to what is unproductive is meaningless to me. After all “you fell for my wording” is unproductive.
“For all I know it could be a Cartman video! JK, got a sense of humor yet?”
I always had a sense of humor. Hence, the link I posted to in the first place. Trying to make light of what you did, however, is not humor.
“So you tried to trick me, so I tricked you.”
No. I never tried to trick you. And offering up a tit-for-tat excuse doesn’t help you in any case.
Before vacating the premises tonight, and perhaps for a while, I’ve noticed some RCs on this board using the word grace as something of a foregone conclusion contained in RC rituals and traditions...like a commodity.
Just to refresh the reader’s memory:
grace (M-W first definition)
a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b : a virtue coming from God
c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace
Truly, the word grace does not refer to a thing such as a baptism, which can be administered to an unbeliever not saved by grace.
“Wrong again. The grace is given by faith.”
Christ gave us the sacraments. He did so for our benefit. He did so for the sake of grace. The grace of Baptism washes away sins.
That is why I asked about terrorists. What? Shall they be baptized and that will 'save' them and change their heart? No. Baptism is merely an outward manifestation of faith. Peter included his commentary concerning baptism within his discourse of instruction to believers in Christ about other things as well, such as how husbands are to treat their wives. They were not directions for the unsaved.
Some of the scribes ascribed miracles Jesus did in the Holy Spirit to the adversary.
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