Posted on 11/03/2014 11:14:00 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o
NWhen Southern Baptists convened a national conference here this week to discuss issues of human sexuality, bringing conservative evangelicals and LGBT Christian activists into the same ballroom was a recipe ripe for potential fireworks.
Perhaps the most shocking thing was how few fireworks there were.
The Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission was clear: Sex is reserved between a man and a woman within the bonds in marriage. And openly gay evangelicals in attendance were equally clear: Homosexuality is not incompatible with Christianity.
No concessions were made, but leaders on both sides expressed surprise at how the two agreed to coexist. Put another way: The old emphasis on “Love the sinner, hate the sin” has become more a version of simply “Love all sinners. Ask questions later.”
“I do want to apologize to the gay and lesbian community on behalf of my community and me for not standing up against abuse and discrimination directed towards you. That was wrong and we need your forgiveness,” said North Carolina megachurch pastor J.D. Greear, drawing applause.
“We have to love our gay neighbor more than our position on sexual morality.”
For now, at least, some gay groups seem willing to give the other side the benefit of the doubt.
The conference brought together a “who’s who” within contemporary conversations on homosexuality and evangelicalism, including ERLC President Russell Moore and Atlanta megachurch pastor Andy Stanley, who attended the conference of 1,300 with a group of other pastors from his nondenominational North Point Community Church.
The interactions were largely friendly, with none of the hostility seen from both sides in recent years. Inside the ballroom and out in the hallway, LGBT activists mingled with Southern Baptist leaders. From the crowd, gay advocates tweeted responses to the speakers on stage, at times seeming to overtake the conference’s Twitter hashtag.
While the substance remained much the same, the evangelicals’ shift in tone was noticeable. Moore regularly referred to people who are gay — not merely people who are sexual sinners in need of redemption — and denounced so-called “ex-gay” therapy as “severely counterproductive.”
Even the Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., the veteran culture warrior and president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., seemed to have a change in tune, if not an outright change of heart.
“Early in this controversy, I felt it quite necessary, in order to make clear the gospel, to deny anything like a sexual orientation,” Mohler told the crowd. “I repent of that.”
Yet the thawed relations could not hide tensions between the ideas of “loving your neighbor” and “defending your rights,” particularly as legal recognition of same-sex marriage continues its lightning-fast expansion across the country. With the clashes between religious liberty and gay rights that inevitably follow, many still question whether the friendly conversations can continue.
The closest conference speakers came to politics came during presentations from the Arizona-based Alliance Defending Freedom on what it sees as a threat posed to religious freedom by legalized gay marriage.
Barronelle Stutzman, the Washington state florist who declined to sell flowers for a same-sex ceremony, drew a standing ovation. Erik Stanley of ADF, the organization defending business owners like Stutzman, called the murder of Matthew Shepard in Wyoming in 1998 “a hate crime myth.” Attendees listen to a speaker during the 2014 ERLC National Conference.
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Attendees listen to a speaker during the 2014 Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission National Conference. Photo courtesy of Rocket Republic, via ERLC National Conference
Mohler also decried “revisionists,” or LGBT advocates like Matthew Vines, who are encouraging evangelicals to embrace the idea that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. A copy of Mohler’s rebuttal to Vines’ book was included in the conference grab bag.
Even as Moore denounced ex-gay therapy, he nonetheless cited examples of some people who have changed their sexual orientation.The conference also featured four speakers, including Rosaria Butterfield whose personal story went viral last year, who spoke of leaving homosexuality or embracing celibacy.
Even so, specific political positions or political endorsements were largely absent. “Baptizing lost people and teaching them to vote Republican is not a revival,” Moore said to cheers and claps.
Numerous conference speakers encouraged Christians to love their neighbors who identify as LGBT. Focus on the Family President Jim Daly, who has cultivated a friendship with a lobbyist for the gay rights advocacy Gill Foundation, said he prays for LGBT activist Tim Gill.
Several speakers said the church should lead, not follow, in combating anti-gay bullying. “You have to ask, what greater lie we could tell about our savior than to distance ourselves from the hurting and the broken in the moment they needed us most,” Greear asked. - See more at: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4Cj3Tea5L98J:www.religionnews.com/2014/10/31/southern-baptists-lgbt-activists-happily-co-exist-but-for-how-long/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a#sthash.OHTy0QTD.dpuf
So you don't care if LGBT activists have bonded with mega church pastors in the Southern Baptist Convention, you just care that a Catholic posted about it ? I would have thought Baptists would care more about the issue. Did I mistake you for a Baptist ?
he didn't pull his punches..
he would be what the worlds call “judgmental” today.
He was a voice crying in the wilderness. ..
And while Herod did listen...Herod was weak
Because it was his wife that hated John..and had Herod kill him.
The church must speak the truth to prepare the way just as john did.. even if that means becoming a voice crying in the wilderness
Homosexuality is not incompatible with Christianity.
Really? I always understood that Christians followed the Word of God.
The word "orientation" implies that it's not a choice. Like it's just something that one naturally gravitates toward.
I have no Idea but I like that. I do not know what happened to him after that. I do not understand how he sat for years listening to our minister and still told his new church that. He sure was taught better. I have been sick since 2008 with one thing or another. Am having eye surgery Friday to repair muscles in my right eye. Had all pre-op tests including an EKG done today. My surgeon told me she would have to remove my eye for the surgery and, like I told friends, I could have done without knowing that. She did say my brain MRI showed I have a brain and nothing is wrong with it! I am more nervous about this than any previous surgery. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired and nauseated all the time from double vision. : (
I’ll take that as a yes, I mistook you for a Baptist. I don’t think the rapproachment between the LGBT activists and some of these pastors is going to sit well in the more conservative churches of the convention. Of course, if the new model of attracting and retaining younger members means moderating about homosexual issues I think many of the mega church pastors will follow the attendance and money when deciding what stands to take.
When the SBC leaves the Bible, I leave the SBC.
“Hating the sin, but loving the sinner” does not mean not saying that the sin is a sin.
It that hurts their tender feelings, well, I’ve had my feelings hurt over the years, but I survived it and so will they.
No, that is not what it means. It means each church controls their own destiny. Of course, there are guidelines each must stand for before becoming Southern Baptist. That is why there are state conventions and a national convention. Some churches are stripped of the name.
Looks like some wolves have made it into leadership positions in the church. Next will they tell heterosexuals to continue in sin as well no need to repent.
What does “Love all sinners. Ask questions later.” mean?
Desert Rhino insists that there's no higher authority than the individual congregation, to define what "Baptist" means.
MamaB tells me that there are guidelines, and that the state and national conventions can strip a church of the name "Baptist".
I'm not sure how the convention could make it stick ... the loathsome toads at Westboro seem to get away with calling themselves "Baptist".
Oh, well ... I'm sure Baptists will manage to sort it out.
CCC paragraph 2358: The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
The word "orientation" means, as you know, to be turned in a particular direction. The homosexual tendency is a matter of having an objectively disordered oientation.
Not the Catholic Church. Not most Baptists either, I reckon.
There are no such things. It is a contradiction in terms. To be LGBT is to deny Christ (The bible clearly and blatantly condemns homosexuality in all it's forms). How can one deny Christ and yet claim to be a follower of Him?
Then there's such a thing as a "bidden" thought: one which one does not resist, or which one welcomes, calls to mind, or which one dwells upon, or settles into as a lustful fantasy, or worse yet, a plan. This is a sin: a sin of intended lustful thoughts. Any action consequent to it, like masturbation, is also a sin.
The first, inadvertent temptation, is not a sin. Scripture says Jesus was tempted in every way as we are are, but without sin.
Amen.
Yu say that like it;s a bad thing!
Now look, Alex, I obviously did not post this in order to disparage Baptists. It is wrong to intentionally give offense; but it is also wrong to take offense where none was intended.
I would say we should pray for our churches and for each other, since we are together facing challenges of the most serious kind. I wish nothing but peace and good to the Baptists, whom I admire and in fact whom I married into.
I’m all for St. John the Baptist. Seriously.
I'll disagree slightly. To be oriented means to be turned in the correct direction, or to be correctly related to one's surroundings.
In the physical realm, the oriented person knows which way is Up, and which way is East. One who cannot correctly identify the gravitational vector, or who is uncertain as to where the sun will rise, or the location of Polaris, is properly said to be DISoriented. In my youth, I was entirely too often disoriented.
Likewise, normal sexual desire for an adult of the opposite sex is orientation. Homosexual desires, for example, are definitely DISoriented.
That passage from the Roman Catholic catechism makes my point, actually, and I like the phrase "objectively disordered".
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