Why would anyone become Catholic?

https://www.indiegogo.com ^ | October 2, 2014 | Indiegogo

[NKP_Vet]

Why would intelligent, successful people give up their careers, alienate their friends, and cause havoc in their families...to become Catholic? Indeed, why would anyone become Catholic?

As an evangelist and author who recently threw my own life into some turmoil by deciding to enter the Catholic Church, I've faced this question a lot lately. That is one reason I decided to make this documentary; it's part of my attempt to try to explain to those closest to me why I would do such a crazy thing.

Convinced isn't just about me, though. The film is built around interviews with some of the most articulate and compelling Catholic converts in our culture today, including Scott Hahn, Francis Beckwith, Taylor Marshall, Holly Ordway, Abby Johnson, Jeff Cavins, Devin Rose, Matthew Leonard, Mark Regnerus, Jason Stellman, John Bergsma, Christian Smith, Kevin Vost, David Currie, Richard Cole, and Kenneth Howell. It also contains special appearances by experts in the field of conversion such as Patrick Madrid and Donald Asci.

Ultimately, this is a story about finding truth, beauty, and fulfillment in an unexpected place, and then sacrificing to grab on to it. I think it will entertain and inspire you, and perhaps even give you a fresh perspective on an old faith.

[metmom]

many people could write BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE COMMON PEOPLE WERE ILLITERATE.

PROVE IT.

[JPX2011]

Apparently you are a student of Father O’Hare

You are incorrect, again. That's twice today. I don't need Father O'Hare to prove that Luther suffered from scrupulosity:

When I was a monk I tried ever so hard to live up to the strict rules of my order. I used to make a list of my sins, and I was always on the way to confession, and whatever penances were enjoined upon me I performed religiously. In spite of it all, my conscience was always in a fever of doubt. The more I sought to help my poor stricken conscience the worse it got. The more I paid attention to the regulations the more I transgressed them. [1]

The assured veracity of assumptions is not so assuring.

[1]Luther, M. (1998, December 4). The Project Gutenberg EBook of Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians. Retrieved from www.gutenberg.org/files/1549/1549-h/1549-h.htm

[JPX2011]

I think that may have been one of the worst singular unjustified cases of cross-threading I have ever seen.

I would suggest you review the Religion Moderator's profile page for the guidelines on Linking to Previous Posts on the Religion Forum

[Elsie]

No, you do not.

And I get dumped on because I do not give the RCC's created 'Mary' proper respect...

[Elsie]

Once again, besides a ill-defined definition of Protestant...

It serves as a convenient, if wrong, strawman for Catholic pew warmers to do battle with.

[Elsie]

...the Church's response to the Reformation.

Yeah...

The COUNTER Reformation.

[Elsie]

There is no longer Jew, nor Gentile; Yeshua tore the vail, and opened the door that cannot be closed.

And yet the word is used throughout the NT and is NEVER explained as you do.

[af_vet_1981]

So in response to the evidence of Catholic antisemtism, you react with this? True to form.

I believe that I addressed Catholic persecution of, and failure to assist, the Jews. I hate all the unrighteousness done to the Jews over the centuries by Catholics, not to mention Protestants and others who claimed the name of Jesus. It is tragically dissonant. Blessed John Paul II walked to the Western Wall, his head covered, to offer a prayer for forgiveness for what was done, and what was not done. Should I not forgive ? I too must stand before the judgment seat of a Messiah, and I am a sinner. I forgive. As it is written. Go and sin no more. The passage of Paul you quote about wrath I only attribute to one generation, from the example here,

12Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? 13And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words. 14So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. 16Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. 17Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

as well as from this New Covenant prophecy

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord. I suppose, as certain of your own poets have said

Still, a man hears what he wants to hear. And disregards the rest. When I left my home and my family I was no more than a boy ....

Any one of us can miss the mitzvot (good deeds) another actually does and focus on where we think he needs improvement. And then, I just had to click on that video of the young woman pleading for her life as ISIS stoned her to death for adultery. Her Arabic was very similar to the Hebrew phrase uttered on Yom Kippur or in the Lord's Prayer. I could hear her saying over and over, again, "slachni" where "ni" refers to just her, "forgive me" and her murderering cleric tells her to say it to "Allah" not to them (where she would have to use a different phrase). They showed her no mercy. Her father refused to forgive her and signaled the stoning to commence, with he himself smashing her head in with the final honorific blow. Right now, I can't get this video out of my heart and ask the LORD, the true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to grant this woman a place in his kingdom and to avenge and deliver all the victims of Islamic rapists and murderers.

[af_vet_1981]

“Samahni” is a transliteration of her Arabic plea “forgive me.”

[BlueDragon]

I would suggest you review the Religion Moderator's profile page for the guidelines on Linking to Previous Posts on the Religion Forum.

That's just it. I could suggest the same thing for you, while noting that you underlined a portion -- but provided no link, nor brought those guidelines.

There was no "linking to previous posts" from this forum, but a link to a thread outside this forum.

And that came after your having used a combination of particular imagery that dan has used on this forum -- which use of your own raised query from dan -- and your answer was to send him (and anyone following the conversation) offsite, in order to some how prove your own empty assertions.

[af_vet_1981]

Believer's (adult) baptism was a minority position among Protestants until the 1800's and the Great Awakenings, the effects of which can be seen today.

Thanks for a civil and interesting lesson. I see that, from your perspective, Protestantism evolved and assume for the intents and purposes of this discussion has only recently evolved to what you consider the truth. The problem I see in this is still the same, for Modern Protestantism to be correct, Orthodox Christianity has to be wrong, and we both can admit historical, original Protestantism was wrong, albeit for different reasons.

[daniel1212]

Not only was it dragging rabbit warren sort of low grade argument from another thread -- it was dragging it to this thread from OFF-SITE! ---even though we had a long thread on that very same subject/precise same article just recently here on FR.

Actually, linking to that thread is fine, as i was part of it, and am still waiting to see where my line of reasoning was "eviscerated," or in any way refuted.

Here are more of my posts on another thread on a Catholic site that deals with the same, by the grace of God.

I just documented what portions of that case which were still visible before entire deletion, seeing the comments still extant on un-refreshed "comments" page -- while they otherwise went bye-bye on "thread" pages.... with the cross-thread badgering coming from a 'forum hero' of the one who is presently your here antagonist.

Interesting, as searching (ctrl+f) Peace by Jesus here brings up a lot.

[daniel1212]

The assured veracity of assumptions is not so assuring.

Indeed. But on both sides.

[BlueDragon]

"I don't need Father O'Hare to prove that Luther..."

Then why did you use that tainted source?

"...that Luther suffered from scrupulosity

Not being able to get at Luther in more direct fashion, it seems as of there has been something of a cottage industry among RCC apologists turning to psychoanalysis of seemingly everyone ---except themselves.

In the end that results in betrayal of their own "scruples" and/or can be evidence of some serious lack thereof.

[daniel1212]

The problem I see in this is still the same, for Modern Protestantism to be correct, Orthodox Christianity has to be wrong, and we both can admit historical, original Protestantism was wrong, albeit for different reasons.

The problem is not admitting that "Orthodox Christianity" was manifestly not Orthodox as regards the NT church, as shown, and that thus the Reformation itself, though it basically corrected the salvific error of Rome, that of justification by one's own holiness thru sprinkling of water, and purgatory (usually), must be continued.

[af_vet_1981]

Not being able to get at Luther in more direct fashion, it seems as of there has been something of a cottage industry among RCC apologists turning to psychoanalysis of seemingly everyone ---except themselves.

Which leads back to my earlier point, that it seems to me Protestants are compelled to defend Luther because if he is discredited for being evil or mentally ill, it questions the legitimacy of the movement, and threatens the doctrinal assumptions of millions. The same would be true, albeit more severe, were the Apostle Paul discredited.

[BlueDragon]

Leads you back to your earlier point?

That so-called "point" proves thoses of my own which I just outlined.

But "protestants" are not compelled to "defend Luther" as much as RC'ers would like to have it be so -- or force them into doing so, using cherry-picked, quote-mined commentary to try to make some case against Luther -- instead of examining theological principles and differences in more neutral fashion.

I think I've seen this all play out on these pages before -- including the accusation the Luther was too scrupulous -- and therefore mentally unbalanced.

Others argue he was too much of a libertine -- and point to his confessions of his own sins -- saying as much as "see there? who should listen to that sinner?" and so on.

[BlueDragon]

"thoses" -- should have been those. more sloppy editing on my part.

[Resettozero]

The same would be true, albeit more severe, were the Apostle Paul discredited.

Paul's writings HAVE been discredited through circular bad reasoning by a few RC posters onboard FR.

Oops. Slips. Carry on with it.

[af_vet_1981]

The problem is not admitting that "Orthodox Christianity" was manifestly not Orthodox as regards the NT church, as shown, and that thus the Reformation itself, though it basically corrected the salvific error of Rome, that of justification by one's own holiness thru sprinkling of water, and purgatory (usually), must be continued.

It seems to me, to embrace that position, one must then abandon almost 18 centuries of historical Christianity, admitting there was no visible orthodox church, and all of the visible churches were erroneous (except you take the position of Independent Findamental Baptitsts, in which case 99.9% or so of the world was lost all those centuries, and even now). Evolving or Emergent Protestantism reminds me somewhat of the modern biblical translations. They keep improving. I think this is the Revelation, or perhaps Preterist position, that the Gentiles were left to their own devices after the last apostle passed and the Jews and Gentiles of the first generations were martyred and failed to appoint orthodox successors. This view seems seems incongruent with 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I think the Moslems argue that the Jews and Gentiles failed and made it necessary for another prophet, albeit not Martin Luther, to arise afterward to lead people out of darkness. I think the Mormons have a view like this, although with different prophets. It seems to me that one ring that binds them all is to try to destroy the Catholic Church. That may seem oddly recognizable if one is not attached to one of the warring parties.