Posted on 09/17/2014 9:07:14 AM PDT by thetallguy24
Pope Francis, with his open-mindedness and more humanist approach to Catholicism reportedly promoted that the Virgin Mary should be at the second Holy Trinity, even putting her at Godhead level.
Pope Francis recently attended the morning mass for the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows on Sept. 15 at Casa Santa Marta. He preached on how the Virgin Mary "learned, obeyed and suffered at the foot of the cross," according to the Vatican Radio.
"Even the Mother, 'the New Eve', as Paul himself calls her, in order to participate in her Son's journey, learned, suffered and obeyed. And thus she becomes Mother," Pope Francis said.
The Pope further added that Mary is the "anointed Mother." Pope Francis said the Virgin Mary is one with the church. Without her Jesus Christ would not have been born and introduced into Christian lives. Without the Virgin Mary there would be no Mother Church.
"Without the Church, we cannot go forward," the Pope added during his sermon.
Now The End Begins claims Pope Francis' reflection on the Virgin Mary suggests people's hope is not Jesus Christ but the Mother Church.
The site claims his sermon somehow indicates a change in the position Jesus holds in the Holy Trinity. Jesus has reportedly been demoted to the third trinity. While the Virgin Mary and the Holy Mother Church, the Roman Catholic Church, takes over his place at the second trinity.
Additionally, basing on Pope Francis words he may have supposedly even put the status of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the "Godhead level."
Revelation 17:4-6 according to the site, gives meaning to the Pope's reflection. The chapter tells the story of the apostle John and his "great admiration" for the Virgin Mary. Now The End Begins claims the verses also speaks about the Holy Mother Church and how God thinks of the "holy Roman Mother Church".
However, the Bible seems to contradict Pope Francis promotion of the Virgin Mary to second trinity. The site quoted some passages wherein the "blessed hope" of the Christians is "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." There was reportedly never any mention of the Virgin Mary as being any kind of hope to anyone or anything.
But during the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows, Pope Francis ended his reflection with the assurance of hope from the Virgin Mary and the Mother Church.
"Today we can go forward with a hope: the hope that our Mother Mary, steadfast at the Cross, and our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church, give us," he said.
However, the Bible's passages shouldn't be taken literally, especially when it comes to reflections of the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.
Therefore, there is no conflict in Scripture:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. – Revelation 5:5-6
Thank you so much for your insights, dear brother in Christ!
All three are of the same mind. One God, three persons. What the Holy Spirit is doing is what God the Father is doing through the Spirit. You seem to be trying to separate them which cannot be done.
Saying that I thought you were not listening to the Holy Spirit was not meant to be an insult. I simply took your comments at face value about not needing the Holy Spirit to do "mundane tasks". My point was that if you realized that those tasks are indeed often directed by the Holy Spirit. Everything that happens in our life is for a purpose whether its learning to read or whatever. We are put in this place at this point in history for a reason. It is only through cooperation with the Holy Spirit that we can fully realize what God's purpose for our life is. If He didn't need us to read for that purpose to be realized the opportunity to learn to read would not have been given us.
Treating matrimony and motherhood as if the very notion of marital relations between herself and her lawful husband Joseph was somehow sinful, viewing it as fornication I suppose, dishonors Mary. If she actually were sinless, marital relations with her husband would not have made a sinner of her. It’s all just so convoluted.
“So, “New Eve” or “Second Eve” was not invented from whole cloth?”
No more so than “Nazarene” where it doesn’t exist.
“There is a scriptural basis for it? Please do direct us all to the Biblical source for this Roman Catholic doctrine, and lay the whole matter to rest.”
I already listed two verses about Christ as the New Adam. If there is a New Adam there is a New Eve.
“I’m all ears.”
Apparently not because we already did this.
Thank you for your insights, dear sister in Christ!
Who is the Bride of Christ, vlad? It's not Mary.
“Seriously??? Ralph Adams Cram was not a “Protestant authority”,”
He was an authority on art and architecture and the making of beautiful architecture and art - and that’s what the quote is about - beauty.
“Who is the Bride of Christ, vlad? It’s not Mary.”
I never claimed she was. I didn’t say she was the New Bride. I said she was the New Eve. Remember, we already covered this: Eve drew her flesh from Adam. Jesus drew His flesh from Mary. It’s not a linear typology. Like I said, you clearly weren’t “all ears”.
I was right all along and your post doesn’t do anything to change that. I was right about the New Eve. I was right about Matthew and “Nazarene”. None of that will change.
... and Mary drew her flesh from?
Who had his own personal opinions. It doesn't make him "no less than a Protestant authority". Why did you quote him as if he were?
Time for bed, gents. Tomorrow I get to hang out with some more former Protestants, but I have a drive before that. Get some sleep.
“.. and Mary drew her flesh from?”
Doesn’t matter to the type. It’s a non-linear type. You might as well as who Adam drew his flesh from.
Safe journey.
“Who had his own personal opinions. It doesn’t make him “no less than a Protestant authority”.”
His opinions, no. His expertise, yes.
“Why did you quote him as if he were?”
Because he was. You can keep saying he wasn’t but he was. That’s just the way it is.
And I don't think you are. We will have to agree to disagree, then. Can you do that?
Thank you. May God bless boatbums. We might argue like cats and dogs, but I believe the Lord loves you.
There’s a lot I like about the Catholic Church, but the whole “Mother of God” as opposed to “Mother of Christ” is just a bridge too far. It makes no sense. Maybe they mean she is the ideal Mother, but the terminology is an awful way to communicate that.
If Christ pre-existed the world (as the New Testament teaches with in-your-face clarity) then Mary as Mother (and therefore creator of) of his Divinity also pre-existed the world. This all falls right into the muslims’ complaint that Christians believe God has sexual relations with other beings. What a mess.
Why isn’t it enough to say, with Scripture, “blessed is she among women?”
He was an architect first and foremost. He is noted by no one as any sort of preeminent authority on Protestantism. In all my readings, I’ve not once seen him cited as such, although I have seen the name in books on Gothic Revival.
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