Posted on 09/17/2014 9:07:14 AM PDT by thetallguy24
Pope Francis, with his open-mindedness and more humanist approach to Catholicism reportedly promoted that the Virgin Mary should be at the second Holy Trinity, even putting her at Godhead level.
Pope Francis recently attended the morning mass for the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows on Sept. 15 at Casa Santa Marta. He preached on how the Virgin Mary "learned, obeyed and suffered at the foot of the cross," according to the Vatican Radio.
"Even the Mother, 'the New Eve', as Paul himself calls her, in order to participate in her Son's journey, learned, suffered and obeyed. And thus she becomes Mother," Pope Francis said.
The Pope further added that Mary is the "anointed Mother." Pope Francis said the Virgin Mary is one with the church. Without her Jesus Christ would not have been born and introduced into Christian lives. Without the Virgin Mary there would be no Mother Church.
"Without the Church, we cannot go forward," the Pope added during his sermon.
Now The End Begins claims Pope Francis' reflection on the Virgin Mary suggests people's hope is not Jesus Christ but the Mother Church.
The site claims his sermon somehow indicates a change in the position Jesus holds in the Holy Trinity. Jesus has reportedly been demoted to the third trinity. While the Virgin Mary and the Holy Mother Church, the Roman Catholic Church, takes over his place at the second trinity.
Additionally, basing on Pope Francis words he may have supposedly even put the status of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the "Godhead level."
Revelation 17:4-6 according to the site, gives meaning to the Pope's reflection. The chapter tells the story of the apostle John and his "great admiration" for the Virgin Mary. Now The End Begins claims the verses also speaks about the Holy Mother Church and how God thinks of the "holy Roman Mother Church".
However, the Bible seems to contradict Pope Francis promotion of the Virgin Mary to second trinity. The site quoted some passages wherein the "blessed hope" of the Christians is "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." There was reportedly never any mention of the Virgin Mary as being any kind of hope to anyone or anything.
But during the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows, Pope Francis ended his reflection with the assurance of hope from the Virgin Mary and the Mother Church.
"Today we can go forward with a hope: the hope that our Mother Mary, steadfast at the Cross, and our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church, give us," he said.
However, the Bible's passages shouldn't be taken literally, especially when it comes to reflections of the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.
Discuss the issues all you want, do not make it personal.
That's all I needed to read. Anything after that is most likely mans wisdom and error.
Well, alrighty then. We're finally getting down to brass tacks in this very lengthy and contentious thread.
So, "New Eve" or "Second Eve" was not invented from whole cloth? There is a scriptural basis for it? Please do direct us all to the Biblical source for this Roman Catholic doctrine, and lay the whole matter to rest.
I'm all ears.
-— The site claims his sermon somehow indicates a change in the position Jesus holds in the Holy Trinity -—
A web site claimed something. WOW!
It’s not like websites claim things every day.
The sad thing is, the Catholic bashers will believe every word, without ever reading this ludicrous article.
Oh I read the rest of the comment. “Spiritual things are Spiritually decerned” as in the scripture metmom posted. Trying to understand without the Holy Spirit only leads to error.
Sure, that is true, but to what extent is it true is the question?
Do we not need to use our hands to open the Bible when we want to read it? Will the Holy Spirit do that for us? If I need to locate a verse, do I ask the Holy Spirit where it is, or can I use the table of contents or the index?
metmom has asserted, referring to the Holy Spirit, that I can’t even breathe without it, which is obviously a falsehood, since billions of unbelievers, who have not the Holy Spirit, continue breathing.
What I am saying is there are times we definitely need the Holy Spirit to assist us, or we will fail, and times that obviously we have the tools at our own disposal to ascertain certain things. To confuse the two does no service to the Holy Spirit or to your Christian brethren. Taken too far, it encourages a spiritual laziness that is inexcusable.
The scripture posted in 272 pertains to you.
You wouldn't even be drawn or inclined to want to open the Bible without urging from the Holy Spirit.
>>If I need to locate a verse, do I ask the Holy Spirit where it is, or can I use the table of contents or the index?<<
Absolutely! I do it all the time. Many eye opening revelations have resulted.
>>since billions of unbelievers, who have not the Holy Spirit, continue breathing.<<
Have you ever read the scripture where it says God sends rain on the just and the unjust?
>>it encourages a spiritual laziness that is inexcusable.<<
Nonsense.
I have no arguments with the Scripture, only with some who are trying to make ridiculous assertions based on it.
“You wouldn’t even be drawn or inclined to want to open the Bible without urging from the Holy Spirit.”
I don’t dispute that. Yet, still the question stands.. do I need the Holy Spirit to do every little thing for me, or is some effort on my part acceptable?
“Absolutely! I do it all the time. Many eye opening revelations have resulted.”
Then you must agree that there are some things that we may perform by more mundane methods in order to get to a spiritual understanding, besides simply calling on the Holy Spirit for every little thing, no?
“Have you ever read the scripture where it says God sends rain on the just and the unjust?”
Certainly, yet that verse in no way contradicts the verses that tell us that unbelievers do not have the Holy Spirit.
“Nonsense.”
Perhaps its nonsense if you mangle the quote by cutting off an entire qualifying clause.
Nobody said they did. The Holy Spirit does speak to unbelievers however. If not no unbeliever would ever become a believer. Also whether they acknowledge it or not they draw a breath by the grace of God.
“You mean” and “and you and your company respond with primal howls...” is considered mindreading and is not allowed on the Religion Forum.
Be specific and we will get to the truth, that is if you believe in Gods Word. It is after all your very life that is at stake here. Your eternal life. Being a wise guy with God's Word will not make you look very smart at all.
CHAPTER VII. 1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells. - http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe010.htm `
The biblical ell is closely related to the cubit, but two different factors are given in the Bible; Ezekiel's measurements imply that the ell was equal to 1 cubit plus 1 palm (Tefah),[2][3] while elsewhere in the Bible, the ell is equated with 1 cubit exactly. Ezekiel's ell, by which he gave measurements in his guided vision through a future Jerusalem Temple, is thus one sixth larger than the standard ell, for which an explanation seems to be suggested by the Book of Chronicles; the Chronicler writes that Solomon's Temple was built according to "cubits following the first measure",[4] suggesting that over the course of time the original ell was supplanted by a smaller one.[1] It seems not coincidental that the Egyptians also used two different ells, one of which — the royal ell — was a sixth larger than the common ell;[1] this royal measurement was the earlier of the two in Egyptian use, and the one which the Pyramids of the 3rd and 4th Dynasties seem to be measured in integer multiples of.[5] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_and_Talmudic_units_of_measurement
Thank you. I’m not the individual responsible for posting those words, however.
“You mean” and “and you and your company respond with primal howls...” is considered mindreading and is not allowed on the Religion Forum.
No you are not, sorry to have posted that message to you!
Not a problem.
Seriously??? Ralph Adams Cram was not a "Protestant authority", he was an architect who at age 18, moved to Boston in 1881 and worked for five years in the architectural office of Rotch & Tilden, after which he left for Rome to study classical architecture. During an 1887 Christmas Eve mass in Rome, he had a dramatic conversion experience. For the rest of his life, he practiced as a fervent Anglo-Catholic who identified as High Church Anglican. As an author, lecturer, and architect, Cram propounded the view that the Renaissance had been, at least in part, an unfortunate detour for western culture. Cram argued that authentic development could come only by returning to Gothic sources for inspiration, as his "Collegiate Gothic" architecture did, with considerable success. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Adams_Cram
To extrapolate that Protestants "hate beauty" and Roman Catholicism is superior is nothing more than a desperate ploy to condemn non-FRoman Catholics by association. It didn't work the last time you cited this "authority", it won't this time either.
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