Posted on 09/17/2014 9:07:14 AM PDT by thetallguy24
Pope Francis, with his open-mindedness and more humanist approach to Catholicism reportedly promoted that the Virgin Mary should be at the second Holy Trinity, even putting her at Godhead level.
Pope Francis recently attended the morning mass for the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows on Sept. 15 at Casa Santa Marta. He preached on how the Virgin Mary "learned, obeyed and suffered at the foot of the cross," according to the Vatican Radio.
"Even the Mother, 'the New Eve', as Paul himself calls her, in order to participate in her Son's journey, learned, suffered and obeyed. And thus she becomes Mother," Pope Francis said.
The Pope further added that Mary is the "anointed Mother." Pope Francis said the Virgin Mary is one with the church. Without her Jesus Christ would not have been born and introduced into Christian lives. Without the Virgin Mary there would be no Mother Church.
"Without the Church, we cannot go forward," the Pope added during his sermon.
Now The End Begins claims Pope Francis' reflection on the Virgin Mary suggests people's hope is not Jesus Christ but the Mother Church.
The site claims his sermon somehow indicates a change in the position Jesus holds in the Holy Trinity. Jesus has reportedly been demoted to the third trinity. While the Virgin Mary and the Holy Mother Church, the Roman Catholic Church, takes over his place at the second trinity.
Additionally, basing on Pope Francis words he may have supposedly even put the status of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the "Godhead level."
Revelation 17:4-6 according to the site, gives meaning to the Pope's reflection. The chapter tells the story of the apostle John and his "great admiration" for the Virgin Mary. Now The End Begins claims the verses also speaks about the Holy Mother Church and how God thinks of the "holy Roman Mother Church".
However, the Bible seems to contradict Pope Francis promotion of the Virgin Mary to second trinity. The site quoted some passages wherein the "blessed hope" of the Christians is "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." There was reportedly never any mention of the Virgin Mary as being any kind of hope to anyone or anything.
But during the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows, Pope Francis ended his reflection with the assurance of hope from the Virgin Mary and the Mother Church.
"Today we can go forward with a hope: the hope that our Mother Mary, steadfast at the Cross, and our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church, give us," he said.
However, the Bible's passages shouldn't be taken literally, especially when it comes to reflections of the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.
Nor have I seen anyone condemn him for making a false statement.
How so?
Do you not see the irony in questioning the authority of Scripture, and then appealing to it to support your claims to the RCC being the one true church and to justify the existence and authority of the *infallible* magisterium?
So, where in Scripture is the magisterium named, and where is the term *infallible* used to be associated with it?
Then what's THIS post all about?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3204978/posts?page=182#182
It would also be a bit easier to believe if you and your confreres, after seeing a bit of Catholic thus-and-so which is "not mentioned in the Bible", were to shrug and say, "Meh... not required, but believe it if you like." When anything OTHER than Scripture (and by that, you mean the expurgated 66-book Protestant Bible) is used, and you and your company respond with primal howls of "GASP! Agh! Blasphemy! Idolatry! Heresy! False Church! Non-Christians! BeastofRevelationWhoreOfBabylon666!!! Moses, gather your stones!!"
How is he floundering? He is making very good points. I don’t see anything wrong with trying to point out errors that others have claimed he said when he did not. How is this floundering?
“No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture. But the first scriptural passage which contains the promise of the redemption, mentions also the Mother of the Redeemer. The sentence against the first parents was accompanied by the Earliest Gospel (Proto-evangelium), which put enmity between the serpent and the woman: “and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel” (Gen., iii, 15). The translation “she” of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century (”Katholik”, 1893, 425), and cannot be defended critically. The conqueror from the seed of the woman, who should crush the serpent’s head, is Christ; the woman at enmity with the serpent is Mary (Hoberg, “Genes.”, p. 50; cf. Leimbach, “Messianische Weissagungen”, 1909, pp. 5 sq.). God puts enmity between her and Satan in the same manner and measure, as there is enmity between Christ and the seed of the serpent. Mary was ever to be in that exalted state of soul which the serpent had destroyed in man, i.e. in sanctifying grace. Only the continuous union of Mary with God by grace explains sufficiently the enmity between her and Satan. The Proto-evangelium, therefore, in the original text contains a direct promise of the Redeemer, and in conjunction therewith the manifestation of the masterpiece of His Redemption, the perfect preservation of His virginal Mother from original sin. The salutation of the angel Gabriel—chaire kecharitomene, Hail, full of grace (Luke, i, 28; cf. Bardenhewer, “Maria Verkundigung”, 95 sq.)—indicates a unique abundance of grace, a supernatural, godlike state of soul, which finds its explanation only in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. But the term kecharitomene (full of grace) serves only as an illustration, not as a proof of the dogma. From the texts Prov., viii, and Ecclus., xxiv, which exalt the Wisdom of God and which in the liturgy are applied to Mary, the most beautiful work of God’s Wisdom, or from the Canticle of Canticles (iv, 7, “Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee”), no theological conclusion can be drawn. These passages, applied to the Mother of God, may be readily understood by those who know the privilege of Mary, but do not avail to prove the doctrine dogmatically, and are therefore omitted from the Constitution “Ineffabilis Deus”. For the theologian it is a matter of conscience not to take an extreme position by applying to a creature texts which might imply the prerogatives of God.”
Source: http://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/immaculate-conception
For anyone who was wondering about “Mary crushing the serpent’s head” and where that comes from.
So who needs the Holy Spirit anyway at that rate?
Catholics believe that nonsense and reject the clearly written, inspired words of Scripture?
Or more accurately, Catholics reject the clearly written, inspired words of Scripture in favor of THAT nonsense?
Deception runs deep.
Do we need the Holy Spirit to reveal every little thing to us when we might be able to understand it through more mundane means?
I mean, if I have a homework assignment, I don’t ask the Holy Spirit to solve my math problems for me. I read the instructions, my textbook, and do the work to find the answer. Similarly, if I want to understand a verse in the Bible, before asking the Holy Spirit, I will look at the verse in context, search for related verses, perhaps look up the meaning of the underlying words in Hebrew and Greek. Then, if I still can’t figure it out, I may need to appeal for divine assistance, but that is not my first resort.
So, if extrabiblical books might shed some light on mysteries, I see no harm in checking them out, so long as you keep in mind that their reliability is questionable and that they can never overrule something that is enshrined in Scripture.
Intentional distortion.
It’s one of the many ways they use to justify the claims they make about Mary and her supposed role as “co-redemtix” as their catechism claims she is.
That’s very good and very succinct.
Spiritual truths CANNOT be understood through more *mundane* means.
Enlightenment by the Holy Spirit is required, indeed essential, to the understanding of spiritual truths.
Without the Holy Spirit, there can be none.
SPIRITUAL TRUTHS ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 2:1-16 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”—
these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
We need the Holy Spirit for EVERYTHING. Without the grace of God and Him sustaining us, we could not even draw our next breath.
When Jerome translated into Latin many errors where made. The Douay-Rheims is translated from that Latin (the Vulgate) and no attempt has been made by the Catholic Church to correct those errors. If they did much of their doctrine would need to change. So while it originally was translation error it has become intentional. It remains the dogma of the Catholic Church to this day.
From the declaration of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception in Pope Pius IX’s Apostolic Constitution, Ineffabilis Deus:
Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was, with him and through him, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot. [http://catholicbiblestudent.com/2013/02/mary-crush-serpents-head.html]
“We need the Holy Spirit for EVERYTHING. Without the grace of God and Him sustaining us, we could not even draw our next breath.”
Yes, of course this is true in the general sense, but to the extent you are asserting it, it’s a meaningless platitude.
Why bother to learn to read? If we can just have the Holy Spirit dictate the Bible to us via osmosis? If you follow the consequences of your assertions to the logical conclusion, they are obviously nonsense.
“In English, The Branch, vlad.”
Still isn’t “Nazarene” - which is what Matthew said. New Adam still isn’t New Eve either. Same sort of idea.
“Maybe the Latin is more opaque.”
It wouldn’t matter if it was. Nazarene still isn’t there.
One is related to translation and shades of meaning in the original language. One is invented from whole cloth. Can you honestly not determine the difference between the two?
“Catholics believe that nonsense and reject the clearly written, inspired words of Scripture?”
1) it isn’t nonsense.
2) We never reject the inspired word.
3) And “Nazarene” is not “clearly written” in the Old Testament even once.
“Deception runs deep.”
Only among Protestant anti-Catholics.
Translation?
Shades of meaning?
“One is invented from whole cloth. Can you honestly not determine the difference between the two?”
Neither is invented from whole cloth. There is a New Adam. It is no invention from whole cloth to say there is a New Eve.
The only inventing from whole cloth here is when you said I said things I never said.
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