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500 Years of Chaos: Protestantism’s Anniversary
Catholic Analysis ^ | 7 June 2014 | Philipp Rogall

Posted on 06/08/2014 1:59:17 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson

In 2017, we will witness the 500th anniversary of one of the most important, influential and regrettable events in Church history: the Protestant Reformation, or the Protestant Rebellion, as some prefer to call it. Indeed, the latter term would suit me better, too. But, being German, I am used to the former expression and should I ever refer to said event as die protestantische Rebellion, people would think me some sort of radical. On that thought, perhaps it is worth noting that rebels are often quite radical themselves, which is one thing we can definitely say of the so-called "Reformers". To mark this anniversary, the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) has planned a number of events, beginning with a "Lutheran Decade" from 2008 to 2017. Each year has it’s own theme in the form of "The Reformation and…", i.e. Education, Freedom, Music, Tolerance, Politics and others.

The decade will culminate in the celebratory year of 2017, to which the President of the Evangelical "Church" in Germany (EKD), Nikolaus Schneider, has even invited Pope Francis. But, really, how likely is it His Holiness will hop on a plane and join in the celebration of someone his predecessor excommunicated? One might ask, is there any room for Catholics to take part in some sort of event? This is the question that is circulating in the mother country of the Reformation: Germany. The Most Reverend Gerhard Feige, Bishop of Magdeburg, is the Bishops' Conference's representative for ecumenical affairs. He has dedicated a lot of thought and time to the question how Catholics should view this event.

It begins with the name: Do we call it an anniversary, something that could imply happiness, or a commemoration of an event that has wrought such great damage upon the Body of Christ, His holy Bride, the Catholic Church? The German bishops have chosen the latter term. There is still confusion on the whole thing, though: The EKD is not being very clear on what exactly they want to celebrate. One hears catchy words such as "diversity", "conscience", and the like stuck onto the Reformation in their talk, but never do we hear of heresy, schism or even the antisemitism of Luther and his ilk. Indeed, who in his right mind would celebrate the chaos and harm inflicted on the Church by the so-called "Reformers"? Not even the Protestants organizing the event dare to say thus. Yet, one gets the impression that the whole event is not actually interested in critically evaluating the past, or their theology for that matter, but rather praising it as the dawn of an era of "tolerance" and "liberty".

Could this be any further from the truth? Professor Heinz Schilling of Berlin, a member of the advisory board for the anniversary, stated in an interview that Luther was "everything but tolerant" and criticized the EKD as "quite understandably not interested in any of the research’s findings". He went even further and said that the organizers made themselves appear "laughable among scholars" by claiming what they do. Margot Käßmann, who is the anniversary’s ambassador and a former Lutheran "bishop", once claimed that it was thanks to Luther that her sect had female "bishops". The professor criticizes this as yet another inaccuracy and something that Luther certainly did not envision. Is it any wonder, then, that the EKD has not come out clearly and said what the entire occasion is about for them, as the bishops have repeatedly bewailed, if even their own board members see through their catchy slogans?

What about us Catholics? Is there any way in which we can join our separated brethren in their commemoration? I argue: no. Some will disagree, but to me, the Reformation is intrinsically connected to fracture in the Body of Christ, heresy and the resulting total chaos. I could never join any such "commemoration", even if one doesn't call it an "anniversary" for the sake of appeasing Catholics. When have we ever "commemorated" the schism of 1054, or any heresy, for that matter? I believe we would do great harm to the effort of achieving Christian unity by taking part in any way. It obscures the borders between Catholicism and Protestantism, confuses people, and may even cause scandal.

The aforementioned Margot Käßmann suggested the following kind of participation of Catholics and Protestants: Each group could begin a pilgrimage on their own route, and reach one common destination. She would also like the program to achieve that all people learn "that 31 October is Reformation Day and not Halloween", to which Bishop Feige of Magdeburg replied "and the eve of All Saints". But the problem I see with Käßmann’s proposal is this: Although the idea might seem nice, it suggests that Protestantism and Catholicism are somehow equals. They most definitely are not. And certainly not according to Luther himself! Catholics know that their Church is the Church Christ the Lord founded on St. Peter, and Protestantism's very name already suggests otherwise. The Reformers made that point very clear. From a Catholic point of view, a heretical movement that splits the Church cannot be of equal worth as the One True Faith. Just think how we would have fought Arianism if such had been our position! This is not to say that Protestants aren't Christians, of course, but we must realize that Protestantism is not what our Lord willed us to have or believe: Catholicism is. Thus, two equal pilgrimages reaching one destination à la Käßmann would cause scandal and confusion. I assume she does not want it to symbolize the way we might some day find unity, but rather the common destination means Christ. But that is precisely the point: The Catholic Church is the ark of salvation, the Body and Bride of Christ, and She alone has "the words of eternal life" (John 6:68). She is Christ in this world apart from Whom "no one comes to the Father" (John 14:6). Protestantism has distorted those words of eternal life fundamentally, and thus cannot be on equal footing with Holy Mother Church. If Christ is "the Way, the Truth and the Life" apart from Whom there is no salvation, then so is the Catholic Church, for She is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:24).

Thus, let me emphasize again: Celebrating the Reformation, or even commemorating it with Protestants, will blur the sharp line between the One True Church and those communities that came from the Protestant Reformation. It will scandalize and, actually, almost certainly make Christian unity harder to achieve. For in pretending Protestantism is somehow equally valid or of the same dignity as Catholicism, we take away the very reason for Christian unity: to be united in the one Church that our Lord left us, founded on Peter in the person of the Roman Pontiff.

Therefore, I hope the German bishops decide not to participate – however unlikely that is. It remains to be seen whether the ecumenical progress in achieving unity hoped for will come about. Let us pray, that 2017 will bring to many people's attention the Truth of Catholicism and the scandal that the separation of Christians is, fostering in them the desire for unity with Christ in His Bride, which is Holy Church.

95Thesen
Luther's 95 Theses

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TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: anniversary; bible; catholic; catholicism; history; jesus; lutheranism; martinluther; protestantism
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To: Lx

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


241 posted on 06/08/2014 8:14:02 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: verga

You cited nothing to me. You keep your pope and your wicked castigation of saved Christians who are not catholic. Neither from hate nor pride only the true confidence that only comes from the saving grace of Jesus Christ.


242 posted on 06/08/2014 8:14:35 PM PDT by shankbear (The tree of Liberty appears to be perishing because there are few patriots willing to refresh it.)
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To: matthewrobertolson

Did you people miss that “mote and beam” passage? Work on it and confess your sins and accept Christ as your savior. His grace is sufficient!!


243 posted on 06/08/2014 8:16:42 PM PDT by shankbear (The tree of Liberty appears to be perishing because there are few patriots willing to refresh it.)
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To: Lx
note of course that I assume you did not mean you worship the Bible. The Bible is the written Word of God, but Jesus Christ IS the Word made flesh. Worship is due to the Triune Godhead alone.

We can respect and venerate the Bible, but for us we do not worship it and also we note that it is the word of God through men, not the exact words (as the Moslems believe of the Koran)

244 posted on 06/08/2014 8:16:55 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: matthewrobertolson
Read carefully. Since the Church is the Body of Christ, She represents Christ — therefore, apart from Her, there is no salvation.

That's not what God's Word says:

Acts 4:10-12 (KJV)

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Romans 10:8-11 (KJV)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

John 14:6-7 (KJV)

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

No religion, or religious institution, can replace simple faith in Jesus. Salvation gets you into the Body of the Christ. It is a spiritual body, not a man-made institution, with Jesus, not a man, as the Head. After joining the Body, study Ephesians 2, 4, 5, along with 1 Corinthians 12 and Colossians 1, to understand the Church/Body of Christ. Its not a man-made, temporal institution. One only has to look back at history and see the many failures, and massive body count, where man has attempted to build a church without Jesus as the Head.

You would think after almost 2,000 years of religious hooey, people would grow up spiritually, and shake off the shackles of religious bondage - its God's Truth that makes you free.

Jesus said, "I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH." He wasn't talking about Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, or any other sect. He was talking about Believers, who are the Body of Christ.

See also Romans 8 - the carnal mind versus the spiritual mind, which gets to the root of the spirit behind this article, and others like it.

245 posted on 06/08/2014 8:17:15 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: matthewrobertolson
Read carefully. Since the Church is the Body of Christ, She represents Christ — therefore, apart from Her, there is no salvation.

Read carefully. Since the Body of Christ is the Church then Rome cannot uniquely claim to be that body, nor as she is foundationally different from the NT church can she claim to be one true visible church, and being apart from her usually is necessary for salvation.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." (Colossians 1:18)

246 posted on 06/08/2014 8:17:20 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: shankbear

Amen!


247 posted on 06/08/2014 8:18:18 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: gusopol3; daniel1212
This is the Religion Forum guideline concerning hatred:

It is within the bounds of “open” Religion Forum town square style debate for a Freeper to express his hatred of a belief. But such posts are never allowed on RF threads labeled “prayer” “devotional” “caucus” or “ecumenical.”

It is never within the bounds on the Religion Forum for a Freeper to express his hatred of people who hold a particular belief when any Freeper is part of the belief group.

For example:

It is ok to express hatred towards MormonISM on “open” Religion Forum threads. It is never ok to express hatred towards Mormons because some Freepers are Mormon.

It is ok to express hatred towards CatholicISM on “open” Religion Forum threads. It is never ok to express hatred towards Catholics because some Freepers are Catholic.

It is ok to express hatred towards ProtestantISM on “open” Religion Forum threads. It is never ok to express hatred towards Protestants because some Freepers are Protestant.

It is ok to express hatred towards SatanISM and Satanists both because no Freeper is Satanist.

Which posts do you believe express hatred towards Protestants rather than ProtestantISM?
248 posted on 06/08/2014 8:20:43 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: wardaddy

I don’t disparage Catholics whatsoever as I fully believe they are Christians, they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and many do not subscribe to all things Catholic. They simply enjoy the church as Christians. I do not question their faith one bit.

That said, I do feel there has been a push by Catholics, perhaps by the church itself, to disparage everyone else, and that isn’t Christian at all.


249 posted on 06/08/2014 8:22:21 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Lx

“Let’s talk about the joke of transubstantiation. So, when a believe takes of the bread, it is actually transformed into the body of Christ. Great, let’s have someone fast for a week and take communion, then we’ll extract this bit of Christ’s flesh, remove the nucleus and plant it in a fertilized egg and implant it into a female, voila, we have now cloned Christ.”

You and I think a lot alike!


250 posted on 06/08/2014 8:23:13 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Religion Moderator

I was responding civilly to another in a long line of mindless catholic attacks and spewings. What about that mote and beam passage, moderator?


251 posted on 06/08/2014 8:23:30 PM PDT by shankbear (The tree of Liberty appears to be perishing because there are few patriots willing to refresh it.)
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To: shankbear
One of the Religion Forum guidelines is that when one poster in a sidebar is warned - all posters in the sidebar are to consider themselves warned.

This is based on the principle that two wrongs do not make a right.

252 posted on 06/08/2014 8:25:16 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: matthewrobertolson
God demands that we be united in a manner similar to the Trinity! Surely, the Trinity does not disagree on doctrine! To say otherwise is to blaspheme!

Which presumes Jn. 17 is referring to comprehensive doctrinal unity, or that evangelicals as a movement have not historically contended for core truths they hold in common, and against cults and traditions of men, and liberal scholarship, all of which Rome is guilty of.

And the manner in which unity is to be similar to the Trinity is that which most RCs manifestly lack - Christ in them and they in Christ, as children of the Most High, (Jn. 17:21,23) but which explains the essential unity among born against evangelicals, due to a shared conversion and relationship with Christ which transcends external tribalism.

253 posted on 06/08/2014 8:25:23 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: matthewrobertolson; boatbums
Like I told what's up: Look up what the Church teaches on "full communion", "ecclesial communities", "latae sententiae excommunication", etc., if you wish to understand what it means when Catholics talk about being "in the Church".

Yet another RC sees this as contradicting past teaching which require being in subjection to the pope and remaining in the bosom of the church for salvation, and that V2 was not infallible and must be judged, as with the CCC, in the light of past infallible teaching.

And so goes the interpretive unity in Rome.

But then you have things as this:

From the Sinsinawa Dominican nuns:

Finding New Connectors to God We will explore the four types of claires --- clairvoyance (pictures), clairaudience (hearing), clair sentence (feelings), and claircognizance (knowing) --- trying to discover one that resonates with you to help you better connect with the Divine power and bring awareness to where you are spiritually. The retreat will combine the Hatha physical practice and meditation practice of Yoga with discussions about the four types of claires, and time for personal reflection. This is a semi-silent retreat; silence will be observed at all times except during our group sessions. - https://www.sinsinawa.org/MoundCenter/RetreatDetail.cfm?num=511 [http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/03/of-the-viet-cong-and-radical-feminist-nuns/]

A Circle of Drums This workshop is a high-energy, hands-on presentation emphasizing collaborative, creative individual expression while also exhibiting the benefits of synergetic group dynamics. Bill uses an ensemble of beautiful drums and percussion instruments from around the world to facilitate a meaningful team-building experience that celebrates the expansive nature of human potential and the ecstatic response to group rhythm-making. It is our hope that everyone who participates in the experience will enjoy a powerful body/mind/spirit encounter that will last a lifetime! - https://www.sinsinawa.org/MoundCenter/RetreatDetail.cfm?num=536

The unity in Rome continues to expand.

254 posted on 06/08/2014 8:34:03 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Religion Moderator

From the article, “Celebrating the Reformation, or even commemorating it with Protestants;” equivalent to “Celebrating emancipation, or even commemorating it with blacks.” Only since you insist on scrutinizing the parts rather than the whole. However , the idea that Pre-reformation Catholicism was a peaceful time and the Reformation ushered in chaos spoken of in the headline has been thoroughly debunked here. (By the way, “Pro” means “For” as in “For the testimony of Christ, not “protest,” as in opposition to Catholicism or anything else.)


255 posted on 06/08/2014 8:36:29 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: will of the people
but while i’m no luther lover i think we’d have to agree that any antisemitism he was guilty of was a carryover from his catholic days- not a newly emergent doctrine of the reformation

Luther's antisemitism is well documented and shaped the German nation. Luther did it because his personal fruit was bad. It is obvious from his writings that he had not the fruit of the Spirit, and that the Nazis implemented Luther's plan for the Jews.

The following are excerpts from Luther's work entitled "The Jews & their Lies":

I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.

* * *
He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7]. Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today.

* * *
Therefore the blind Jews are truly stupid fools...

* * *
Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people ... their blindness and arrogance are as solid as an iron mountain.

* * *
Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments...

* * *
Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.

* * *
Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch­thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.

* * *
However, they have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God's wrath.

* * *
If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have used for inventing their lies­­ that is, longer than two thousand years.

* * *
...Christ and his word can hardly be recognized because of the great vermin of human ordinances. However, let this suffice for the time being on their lies against doctrine or faith.

* * *
Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?

* * *
Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.

* * *
No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

* * *
...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!

* * *
Over and above that we let them get rich on our sweat and blood, while we remain poor and they such the marrow from our bones.

* * *
I brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule­­ if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe­conduct, or communion with us.... .With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience.

* * *
Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew.

* * *
However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying, slandering, cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly

* * *
Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy.

* * *
Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death.

* * *
What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly ­ and I myself was unaware of it ­ will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

Fifth, I advise that safe­conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

* * *
But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name? They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. for our knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it before God.

* * *
Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:

First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss in sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire. That would demonstrate to God our serious resolve and be evidence to all the world that it was in ignorance that we tolerated such houses, in which the Jews have reviled God, our dear Creator and Father, and his Son most shamefully up till now but that we have now given them their due reward.

* * *
I wish and I ask that our rulers who have Jewish subjects exercise a sharp mercy toward these wretched people, as suggested above, to see whether this might not help (though it is doubtful). They must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in, proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did in the wilderness, slaying three thousand lest the whole people perish. They surely do not know what they are doing; moreover, as people possessed, they do not wish to know it, hear it, or learn it. There it would be wrong to be merciful and confirm them in their conduct. If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs, so that we do not become partakers of their abominable blasphemy and all their other vices and thus merit God's wrath and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Now let everyone see to his. I am exonerated. "

* * *
My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen.

256 posted on 06/08/2014 8:38:09 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: matthewrobertolson; Lx
Should one only receive the Eucharist under "one kind" (like the Body), they still receive both substances.

But to be consistent with the literal interpretation of the absolute imperative of Jn. 6:53,54, one cannot have spiritual and eternal life if they deny the "Real Presence."

Of course, to be consistent Caths should also take it is literal when David distinctly called water the blood of men, and would not drink it, but poured it out on the ground as an offering to the Lord, as it is forbidden to drink blood. (2 Samuel 23:15-17)

And when God clearly states that the Canaanites were “bread: “Only rebel not ye against the LORD, neither fear ye the people of the land; for they are bread for us” (Num. 14:9)

And or that the Promised Land was “a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof.” (Num. 13:32)

And or when David said that his enemies came to “eat up my flesh.” (Ps. 27:2)

And or when Jeremiah proclaimed, Your words were found. and I ate them. and your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart” (Jer. 15:16)

And or when Ezekiel was told, “eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.” (Ezek. 3:1)

And or when (in a phrase similar to the Lord’s supper) John is commanded, “Take the scroll ... Take it and eat it.” (Rev. 10:8-9 )

And since the Lord said that “As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me,” (John 6:57) and He said man should “live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God - quoting Scripture, and that His “meat was to do the will of Him that sent Me,” (Mt. 44:; Jn. 4:34) and that “the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life,” and that souls are only shown receiving life by believing the gospel message,” (Eph. 1:13) and the Word in general is what builds one up, (Acts 20:32) then why will not Catholic even allow that the Lord was referring to “eating” and “drinking” figuratively, as believing on and obeying the Word made flesh in order to gain life and live by Christ?

Especially since John abounds with figurative language and contrasting use of the temporal earthly physical to refer to the eternal heavenly spiritual.

Moreover, they are also inconsistent by rejecting other uses of figurative language in John, consistent with Jn. 6, as being literal,

• In John 1:29, Jesus is called “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” — but he does not have hoofs and literal physical wool.

• In John 2:19 Jesus is the temple of God: “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” — but He is not made of literal stone.

• In John 3:14,15, Jesus is the likened to the serpent in the wilderness (Num. 21) who must “be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal” (vs. 14, 15) — but He is not made of literal bronze.

• In John 4:14, Jesus provides living water, that “whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life” (v. 14) — but which was not literally consumed by mouth.

• In John 7:37 Jesus is the One who promises “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water” — but this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive. (John 7:38)

• In Jn. 9:5 Jesus is “the Light of the world” — but who is not blocked by an umbrella.

• In John 10, Jesus is “the door of the sheep,”, and the good shepherd [who] giveth his life for the sheep”, “that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly” vs. 7, 10, 11) — but who again, is not literally an animal with cloven hoofs.

• In John 15, Jesus is the true vine — but who does not physically grow from the ground nor whose fruit is literally physically consumed.

257 posted on 06/08/2014 8:42:35 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: gusopol3

Not only debunked but shown to be so untenable that only hatred could motivate its being posted.


258 posted on 06/08/2014 8:44:07 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3
At worst the theme of the article may be hatred for ProtestantISM which is to say Christian belief that arose apart from Catholicism, i.e. from the Reformation. But that is not the same thing as expressing hatred for Protestants - people, actual people.

For instance, a number of posters loathe MormonISM and are free to express themselves on "open" RF threads. But they most not - and do not - express hatred towards Mormons - people, actual people.

No matter what a Freeper believes, he can be confident that someone out there - on Free Republic or not - hates his beliefs. Running into someone like that on an RF thread should be expected.

But if that kind of debate is uncomfortable to him, he should ignore the "open" RF threads altogether and instead read/post to RF threads labeled "caucus" "prayer" "devotion" or "ecumenical."

259 posted on 06/08/2014 8:48:21 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: infool7; Bryan24
Why should I take your word for it, by what authority do you make such an obnoxious and absurd claim?

By what authority could 1st century souls follow a man in the desert who ate insects and reproved the magisterium? And what is the basis for your assurance that Rome is the one true and infallible church?

260 posted on 06/08/2014 8:48:22 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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