Posted on 02/24/2014 7:28:13 PM PST by restornu
Miraculous claims surrounding the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are an evidence of the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith. Critics intent on discrediting the Restoration point to DNA studies on indigenous American peoples in an attempt to expose Joseph, the Book of Mormon, and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as frauds. Claiming that scientific evidence excludes any possibility that Middle Eastern or ancient Jewish travelers came to the Americas in antiquity, such critics attempt to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of Latter-day Saints and those of other faiths concerning the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as an ancient religious text.
Are these studies credible? Do the data actually show what the critics claim? Do they discredit the Book of Mormon, or is there biological and other scientific evidence that supports the claims that it is indeed an ancient record of a people that once inhabited the Americas?
The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) interviews scholars and scientists to answer these important questions and reveals the faith-affirming truth that not only are the critics' conclusions and methods flawed, but that there is credible scientific evidence in favor of the Book of Mormon as an ancient religious text.
You two spend more time talking than my husband and I.
Then you HAVE seen #273 before.
You've not commented on it that I can remember; want to do it NOW?
You spend LESS time listening than my GOATS!
Take it easy, Elsie. That wasn’t a criticism. It was a cry for help.
since you didn’t post approved and authorized Mormon publications why would you think those line up with what your boy Joey Smith teaches you ???
Yeah I forgot Joey Smith was there too in the grove errr garden...
None of those Bible verses which strangely you chose to quote mention anything about salvation being paid for in the Garden of Gethsemane...
Wheres the verses that say that ???
Anywhere in the Bible ???
and why are you quoting from the Christian Bible anyway ???
You don’t believe the Bible ...
If you did you wouldn’t be a Mormon...
It is in the garden the Atonement was made!
Then WHY did He go to the cross?
Can you explain that?
****
In the garden Jesus Prayed and suffered for all mankind and and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Luke 22
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Heb 9
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
It was Jesus intercession with Heavenly Father for us in the garden and he seal the testament with blood when he was crucified.
So there was the intercession prayer for the redemption of all mankind and the crucifixion was to seal this testament with blood.
2 Nephi 2
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.
9 Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.
10 And because of the intercession for all, all men come unto God; wherefore, they stand in the presence of him, to be judged of him according to the truth and holiness which is in him. Wherefore, the ends of the law which the Holy One hath given, unto the inflicting of the punishment which is affixed, which punishment that is affixed is in opposition to that of the happiness which is affixed, to answer the ends of the atonement—
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.10?lang=eng#9
Oh!
I see...
(Goat owners need NO help...)
I’ve tried to share with you that life is too short to waste on YouTube videos...
That’s a LOT of words. Could you explain it simply?
"Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson," the thirteenth president of the LDS Church stated it was in the Garden of Gethsemane that Christ "suffered as only as God would suffer, bearing our griefs, carrying our sorrows, being wounded for our transgressions, voluntarily submitting Himself to the iniquity of us all, just as Isaiah prophesied."
He further stated on that same page: "It was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him"
(Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.15).
Elder Bruce R. McConkie was a member of The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. He spoke in General Conference shortly before his death. He knew he was to die shortly, and this talk was his last testimony. He said the following:
We do not know, we cannot tell, no mortal mind can conceive the full import of what Christ did in Gethsemane. We know he sweat great gouts of blood from every pore as he drained the dregs of that bitter cup his Father had given him. We know he suffered, both body and spirit, more than it is possible for man to suffer, except it be unto death. We know that in some way, incomprehensible to us, his suffering satisfied the demands of justice, ransomed penitent souls from the pains and penalties of sin, and made mercy available to those who believe in his holy name. We know that he lay prostrate upon the ground as the pains and agonies of an infinite burden caused him to tremble and would that he might not drink the bitter cup. We know that an angel came from the courts of glory to strengthen him in his ordeal. As near as we can judge, these infinite agonies—this suffering beyond compare—continued for some three or four hours.
...in Gethsemane we will see the Son of God ransom man from the temporal and spiritual death that came to us because of the Fall. And finally, before an empty tomb, we will come to know that Christ our Lord has burst the bands of death and stands forever triumphant over the grave. Thus, Creation is father to the Fall; and by the Fall came mortality and death; and by Christ came immortality and eternal life. If there had been no fall of Adam, by which cometh death, there could have been no atonement of Christ, by which cometh life. And now, as pertaining to this perfect atonement, wrought by the shedding of the blood of God—I testify that it took place in Gethsemane and at Golgotha, and as pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify that he is the Son of the Living God and was crucified for the sins of the world. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. This I know of myself independent of any other person. I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears. But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God’s Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.
No Cross mentioned.
Why do you keep saying I do not believe the Bible when my 18 quest was to fine those things on earth which certain passages talked about
Also the all LDS standard works have footnotes that are link to all passages that pertain to those topics or events. It is all interwoven like a beautiful tapestry.
The Bible and The Book of Mormon as well as all the standard works testify to Jesus Christ.
his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
______________________________________
Yes but it wasn’t blood...
and it wasn’t any kind of “atonement”
Jesus also suffered and even greater when he was whipped, and actually DID shed blood then..
I don’t think you have ever addressed that as a possible part of your idea of “atonement”
and wait for it...
the whipping came AFTER the garden and BEFORE the Cross so was it all one big event of “atonement”
according to what you like to post it would have to be ..
there cant have been a break a time out...
Little grasshopper Go and think on these things...
Ya I know 7 mins is a long time compared to a 2 hour movie.
:)
Give it UP, restornu.
***
This is the most correct thing you have stated because it is becoming sad and silly my heart really breaks for all of you and your inability to ask the Lord what is this all about instead like the natural man just keep doing what you are doing...
for now I have been things to do...
Keep warm
Harry Reid told BYU students Oct. 9, 2007:
“I am a Democrat because I am a Mormon, not in spite of it.”
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695217316/Reid-gets-warm-reception-at-BYU.html
PULL QUOTE: Reid gets warm reception at BYU
(Interesting article, Reid spends his speech trashing GW Bush, conservatives and the GOP)
Harry Reid for 2009 won the BYU “mormon of the year”.
Judas, I think not
I keep on saying that because I have had years of reading your posts here in FR where you have denied the words in the Bible and told me I was wrong when I would cut and paste the words just to make sure I didn’t leave out one word..
(Even though I know by heart many passages from my 65 years of reading and studying...and I do just write longhand the shorter verses I know)
Your 18 years of “quest” would have been beneficial to you if you had just stayed home and quested a Bible..
Go says to seek Him where He may be found..
You’ve wasted 18 years looking in all he wrong places..
God’s not hard to find..
I found Him when I was 8 years old..
God even tells us He can be found by people not even questing or seeking for Him..
Is this you ???
“I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’ All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations—
a people who continually provoke me to my very face, offering sacrifices in gardens...”...Isaiah 65:1-3
sure sounds like you...
but youre still alive so its not too late to start today so I say to you again
READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF
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