You're Probably Not Saved, Yet.

Beyond Today ^ | 2013 | Various

[DouglasKC]

How do you know you're saved?

Imagine you arrive at a most important banquet that's hosted by Christ Himself. After all--you're a Christian. Picture coming to His home and walking right up to the door. Perhaps you're a little surprised that the door is closed and you're shut outside. But not to be deterred, you knock and knock. No response, no reaction. So you call out, "Jesus open the door, Lord it's me." Still, no response, no reaction. At long last, you hear Jesus' voice and He says, "I never knew you!" What a devastating and shocking situation in which to find yourself.

[Tennessee Nana]

I often assume those on these threads are intimately familiar with the text. I will post them for you later when I have better access.
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and yet you yourself are not ???

Why then did you paraphrase something you just assumed was in the Bible ???

just repeating something you heard ???

Personally I ALWAYS assume those on these threads are intimately familiar with the text that they posted. I also expect the poster to include the source from the Bible along with the verses..

if you read it in the Bible you would know where you found it..

I will “assume” you were in error when you posted originally...

[Tennessee Nana]

BTW just to refresh your memory..

THREE DAYS ago you posted #372 to MHGinTN the following...

“Your comments again malign a dignitary, our elder, Jacob, who is in the Hebrews hall of fame. You accuse him of conniving and deceiving completely blind to the fact, the biblical fact that Jacob was chosen by God, loved by God, and the rightful heir of Isaac’s blessing. Jacob did God’s will by obeying his mother Rebekah. God hated Esau and said he could not inherit. You seem troubled by that and complain that Jacob lied to his brother Esau, who was the seed of the serpent and would have exterminated the seed of the woman if Isaac’s lack of spiritual vision had persisted. Rebekah knew the difference. Balaam did not and it cost him his life. He kept trying to curse Jacob but ended up prophetically blessing him (Numbers 24).”

and so in #372 I asked you

“Please provide us with the corresponding scriptures from the Christian Bible for your comments on Jacob and his family..”

so now I ask you Have you found your Bible yet ???

[af_vet_1981]

so now I ask you Have you found your Bible yet ???

Sorry, I have a real life beyond the Internet. I have to wait until I have the time and opportunity to post.

[Hoodat]

Faith is simply putting your belief into action. Works are not of us. They are of God, prepared by Him in advance so that we should walk in them.

[Hoodat]

It is clear from that passage that those referred to in Matt 7:22 recognized Christ as 'Lord' and acted out based upon His power. The thing they lacked was relationship which is what God has sought from us since the very beginning.

When God gives us the power of healing, prophesy, and deliverance, He doesn't take it back. God is not a micromanager. But we are to be aligned with Him under His authority when we utilize that power. The ones referred to in this passage did not align themselves, but instead acted on their own accord. That is why Jesus rejected them. They never bothered to take the time to get to know Him.

[Hoodat]

You left out verse 10.

[Hoodat]

All mankind has salvation...by grace, through Faith.

Faith requires action. All of the disciples believed that with God they could walk on water. But Peter was the only one who demonstrated it. All believed. Only one had faith.

[Hoodat]

Is it safe to confess that I am in a bar band? I’ll be dead serious here: the opportunities to share the gospel (during breaks, setup and teardown) are like picking the low hanging fruit.

Sounds like marketplace ministry to me. I notice that Jesus did that a lot too.

[Hoodat]

"You're homosexual behavior is no worse or better than the sin of my lusting sexually after someone who is not my wife. They're both sins".

Correctamundo!

[Hoodat]

The holy spirit is our teacher.

But only when we bother to show up for class.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

Definitely Mennonite...If you don’t accept Christ again and again and at the moment of death, you are going to Hell. Seems these guys are on that track.

[GeronL]

better than those who think you can be saved and murder millions and you are still saved

[af_vet_1981]

BTW just to refresh your memory.. THREE DAYS ago you posted #372 to MHGinTN the following...
“Your comments again malign a dignitary, our elder, Jacob, who is in the Hebrews hall of fame. You accuse him of conniving and deceiving completely blind to the fact, the biblical fact that Jacob was chosen by God, loved by God, and the rightful heir of Isaac’s blessing. Jacob did God’s will by obeying his mother Rebekah. God hated Esau and said he could not inherit. You seem troubled by that and complain that Jacob lied to his brother Esau, who was the seed of the serpent and would have exterminated the seed of the woman if Isaac’s lack of spiritual vision had persisted. Rebekah knew the difference. Balaam did not and it cost him his life. He kept trying to curse Jacob but ended up prophetically blessing him (Numbers 24).”
and so in #372 I asked you
“Please provide us with the corresponding scriptures from the Christian Bible for your comments on Jacob and his family..”
so now I ask you Have you found your Bible yet ???

1. Genesis 25:
   And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
   And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents. [plain = תָּ֔ם, tam, Strong's number 8535, the translation of this word in every other personal character trait mention is perfect or upright and should be here as well. See :
2. Job 1:1, same word => There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
3. The plural of tam is תָּמִים Strong's number 8549 and is used with two other named persons, Noah : Genesis 6:9, et al. These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
4. and Abram, although you can argue it is an admonition, in Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect

The word tam/tamim is also used to describe sacrifices that are without blemish, other men who are upright/perfect albiet unnamed, the Law, and God himself. Consider this:
1. Daniel 1:3-4 with Strong's number 3971 rendering a positive translation with a double negative of an antonym but essentially achieving the same meaning as tam; not hard to argue Daniel was considered tam by God And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes; Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.
2. which leads me to Ezekiel 14:14, 14:16, and 14:18 where the LORD repeated something three times (which means really pay attention) Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. [15] If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: [16] Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. [17] Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it: [18] Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
3. And remember Abraham (Genesis 19) where he interceded for Sodom and the LORD answered if there were ten righteous men he would not destroy it, and then he delivered Lot and his immediate family Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither.
4. My point is that these five men were singled out by God for their uprightness, their perfect and blameness character, and God really loves them. And Revelation 4 has And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. . Now we know twelve are Jewish Apostles: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. The other twelve are open to question, but it reasonable based on the Scriptures to think Noah, Job, Abraham, Jacob, and Daniel may be found among the twenty four elders. It is unwise to denigrate their names as 2 Peter 2 reads. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Not let's see them in the Hebrews Hall of Fame.
5. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
6. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
7. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
8. By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
9. Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Notice that Isaac blessed Jacob by faith, because the inheritance always belonged to Jacob and not to Esau. Rebekah knew it but Isaac did not until it happened when Jacob obeyed his mother (and prevented his father from committing a great sin).
1. Romans 9 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
2. Again from Genesis 25 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to inquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. so we see that God told Rebekah to whom the inheritance belonged but Isaac was blinded for And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

God uses Jacob and Israel, both names, interchangeably to refer to Klal Israel, all Israel, the man as well. It is not true that Jacob changed his name to Israel and was no longer Jacob.
1. Baalam (doctrine of Balaam) sought to curse Jacob and God rebuked him with a dumb ass who was made to speak.
2. Numbers 23 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
3. Numbers 24 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth. And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly. Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion,
4. Isaiah 29 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel. They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

[af_vet_1981]

I left out Ezekiel 14:20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Again, obvious to me but perhaps not to you, and I did not spell it out. Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, is a reference by the author of Hebrews to Daniel. See Daniel 6 Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and cast him into the den of lions. Now the king spake and said unto Daniel, Thy God whom thou servest continually, he will deliver thee.. So we have all four (tam/tamim) men and my fifth (Daniel whose character was not described as tam/tamim but from the without blemish and all the other scriptural references to Daniel (such as But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself., As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.,

[af_vet_1981]

Doctrine of Balaam
1. And from Revelation 2 we see But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
2. Numbers 23 where Balak, King of Moab, sought a preacher/prophet/priest to curse Jacob: He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me: Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed.
3. And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.
4. Balaam tries multiple times to see if God changed his mind, as it were, and God was very angry at Balaam for trying to curse Jacob/Israel. Balaam apparently did not give up. He found a way to get the children of Israel to sin, presumably with the strategy to separate them from God through the sins of idolatry and fornication so they could be forsaken by God and cursed. According to tradition Balaam was executed by Israel and accordng to the Scriptures he has a bad outcome. 2 peter 2 has Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; and again in Jude 1 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
5. If only he had listened to his own prophecy he could have lived, How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied? It is foolish to malign or curse Jacob, whom God has not maligned or cursed, but loved and honored.

[Tennessee Nana]

Kid narrow it back down to Jacob...

I didnt ask for a sermon or your personal interpretation...

I asked you “Please provide us with the corresponding scriptures from the Christian Bible for your comments on Jacob and his family..”

after you had posted to MHGinTN

“Your comments again malign a dignitary, our elder, Jacob, who is in the Hebrews hall of fame. You accuse him of conniving and deceiving completely blind to the fact, the biblical fact that Jacob was chosen by God, loved by God, and the rightful heir of Isaac’s blessing. Jacob did God’s will by obeying his mother Rebekah. God hated Esau and said he could not inherit. You seem troubled by that and complain that Jacob lied to his brother Esau, who was the seed of the serpent and would have exterminated the seed of the woman if Isaac’s lack of spiritual vision had persisted. Rebekah knew the difference. Balaam did not and it cost him his life. He kept trying to curse Jacob but ended up prophetically blessing him (Numbers 24).”

Jacob WAS a conniver and a deceiver..even God said he was..

BTW Jacob means supplanter according to the Bible

BTW as for the obeying his Mommy bit...

Genesis 27:12, 13 Jacob tells his Mom that his father will know that he is not Esau and that Jacob has deceived him and that he will be cursed. cursed by whom ??? God...God would curse Jacob for his deception..

Rebekah agrees that Jacob will be doing something evil and would be cursed but urges him to deceive his father after all and cajoles him with a halfhanded “Upon me be your curse” knowing full well that her son Jacob would not be excused from the evil he was going to do to his brother ans his father ..

Remember back in verse 28 of Chapter 25 God tells us that Isaac loved Esau because Isaac got to eat the meat Esau hunted for but Rebekah loved Jacob..

So at the time that Jacob connives with his mother against his father and his own brother and is prepared to deceive Isaac his father in order to steal the blessing legally due his older brother, Isaac the man of God loved Esau but not Jacob..

It seems Isaac knew that Jacob was a lowlife..

Remember it wasn’t Esaus idea to give Jacob his birthright..

Jacob demanded it of his brother..

He refused to feed his hungry brother who was the one to usually provide food for the family..

until Esau gave Jacob something that he was not entitled to have..Esaus birthright as the oldest son..thats not a virtuous move on Jacobs part..that evil conniving, deceiving, just like his ambitious mother, Rebekah..

Anyhoo kid read the Bible for yaself and then get back to us..

asnd I’ll teach ya some more about whats between the covers of the Christian Bible..

as usual this lesson is free to the po lil ol needy grasshopper..

[Tennessee Nana]

God uses Jacob and Israel, both names, interchangeably to refer to Klal Israel, all Israel, the man as well. It is not true that Jacob changed his name to Israel and was no longer Jacob.
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While it is correct that Jacob was not the one to change his name from Jacob it was changed for all time to Israel by God..

and He asked him “What is your name?” and he said “Jacob” And He said “Your name will NO LONGER be Jacob but Israel because as a prince you have power with God and with man and you have3 prevailed. Genesis 32:27, 28

and so on..

[CynicalBear]

>>God would curse Jacob for his deception..<<

Where do you find that God cursed Jacob? You can’t use Genesis 27:12 for that because that was only Jacob worrying that he might be cursed. God said that He loved Jacob but hated Esau.

Malachi 1:2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

God blessed Jacob.Esau sold his birthright because he was hungry in the here and now without regard for the future. A lesson for those who live in the here and now and give nor regard to eternity?

>>Esau gave Jacob something that he was not entitled to have<<

No he didn’t. God had ordained the Esau would serve Jacob long before they were born.

Genesis 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

God chose Jacob not for what he did but through his grace and for purposes which are a mystery to man. Jacob did not deserve to be chosen any more than any one of us deserve to be chosen.

>>asnd I’ll teach ya some more about whats between the covers of the Christian Bible..<<

No thanks. I get enough of the carnal understanding of scripture already.

[MHGinTN]

“No he didn’t. God had ordained the Esau would serve Jacob long before they were born.” ... Is it your opinion then that because God can see the future before it arrives that by not changing that future He is ordaining it ... at every juncture? Sorry, that is not an attribute I could endorse about God. For you see, if the evil one can get God into a tit for tat activity tgen the one causing bad things is making God lesser than the one He would be tasked into constantly opposing. Opposition to the intents of the evil one is OUR JOB to act out, until God calls ‘that’s enough’. We do it by the power of God’s Holy Spirit within our human ‘come alive’ spirit. That is one of the great mysteries of human existence, that God builds us up by giving us the earnest of our inheritance while still in the flesh so that we may be conquerors. When God looks at a Christian, Whom does He see in your place? Whose Righteousness rests upon you or Jacob/Israel, Abraham, as a mantle there by Grace not works?

[Tennessee Nana]

God said that He loved Jacob but hated Esau.
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but God never said that PRIOR to Genesis 27:12

and Isaac the man of God loved Esau Genesis 25:27

while the mother Rebekah loved Jacob Gen 25:27

God did not say the He loved Jacob...

at the time of Gen 27:12 Jacob was worried that God would curse him for his deception..I never said that God would I said Jacob knew that he was about to deceive both his brother and his father and knew that God would curse him for it..

Jacob KNEW he was doing wrong..

but it was Rebekah’s idea and she egged him on, even saying that God just might curse her instead..obeying his mother was not a righteous Godly course..it was one of greed and conniving and DECEPTION..

though in all likelihood God would curse them both..

NOW however I will say that Jacob was cursed by God..

what goes around comes around etc..

do you really think the 20 years of deception that Jacob got from Laban was an accident ???

Jacob knew it was a payback time and he didn’t know what to do about it..

do you notice that Jacob doesn’t seem to have run to God about his problem with Laban ???

and yet he knew from watching his father Isaac that he could ask God what to do about the trouble he was having with Laban..

so Jacob just stewed and endured for years instead..

Until God finally intervened and moved Jacob and his family out...after Jacob had been punished and learned his lesson...

I don’t think the Jacob of those first 20 years would have humbly approached his brother again..

(although Jacob did make a human shield of his wives and children to go and meet Esau so he wasn’t man enough yet..)