Veneration of Mary in Luke 11:27-28

Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:

Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)

What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:

Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)

Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.

Explain the veneration that took place at the Transfiguration...

Thank you for this question. Somehow, I failed to bring the reader's attention to this important episode when we spoke of the biblical roots of the veneration of saints. Here is the text:

[1] And after six days Jesus taketh unto him Peter and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: [2] And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow. [3] And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. [4] And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. [5] And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them. And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him. [6] And the disciples hearing, fell upon their face, and were very much afraid. [7] And Jesus came and touched them: and said to them, Arise, and fear not. [8] And they lifting up their eyes saw no one but only Jesus. [9] And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying: Tell the vision to no man, till the Son of man be risen from the dead. (Matthew 17, similar Mark 9:1-8).

What do we see here? First, it is a select group of Apostles, and they go up the mountain; many times Jesus goes up the mountain to fast and pray alone, but this time he takes three select apostles along. So, we take it, it is a difficult lesson requiring an elevated mind. Indeed, after the lesson is done, the three apostles are told not to tell anyone of it till the Resurrection.

So what is the lesson? Jesus is seen transfigured, indicating His future glorified body. Elijah and Moses are not transfigured. This then shows their presence in heaven even before the General Judgment that we all await: it is Jesus and the two Hebrew saints in their condition now.

Jesus is conversing with the saints. This, I underscore, means the communication was two-way. That is exactly how we understand the Communion of saints to be: a single family where a saint from time to time takes the initiative to speak. The nature of the communication is not narrated: apparently the purpose of the lesson is not what Jesus and Moses and Elijah were talking about, but that the conversation is possible. This is how we understand the communion of saints to be also: adoration is made of Christ, petitions are given to Christ, instructions are received from Christ, -- the communion of saints has every channel of communication open between the saints and Christ.

The Holy Apostles do not engage in the conversation. Otherwise, it would have been a direct proof-text of veneration of Hebrew saints. The fact that they are told to keep the experience to themselves till the Resurrection underscores to us that the veneration of saints was not desirable prior to the Church Age, even to the extent that it was possible. Indeed we see that they were struck with fear: that would not be an emotion conducive to venerating anyone. Indeed, Leviticus 20:27 directly forbids any kind of behavior that they see Jesus engaged in. Of course they would fear: they see their Lord breaking the Jewish law and asking them to come along.

But they also are in the presence of grace. "It is good to be here"-- St. Peter exclaims. And indeed it is good to venerate a saint: it give your soul a comfort of knowing your future heavenly company; it restored the believer's hope in his own salvation and invaluable advice, one that cannot be gotten from a person whose sanctification is yet incomplete, comes from a conversation with a saint. It is so good that Peter wants to build three tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah.

A tabernacle is a portable shrine, but to a Jew it is also the home of the Ark of the Covenant. Here blessed Peter with his boyish nature is about to get himself in trouble: he apparently thinks that either Jesus is a mere prophet like the other two, or that all three are Gods. Promptly his mistake is corrected: it is Jesus alone that is to dwell in the tabernacle. Here, by the way, how the Tabernacle of Jesus looks:

The theophany occurs next: God appears on the cloud to answer the worshipful impulse of Peter. God makes it clear that Christ alone we worship and indeed the conversation is no longer; the saints withdraw. The undeveloped, still profoundly Jewish religious development of Peter made the conversation, to which he was invited to, no longer productive or possible.

Christ tells the Apostles to keep the event secret till the Resurrection. Implied in that is the commandment to tell everyone after the Resurrection. It was the desire of Our Lord to gradually teach His people to properly venerate saints, to properly separate veneration from worship and to experience divine grace without fear. That, indeed, He also told the Holy Apostles: "Arise, and fear not".

This is a Holy Icon of the Transfiguration in Byzantine tradition:

Is there another lesson? The Transfiguration is also a feast of the threshold of our blessed Church Age: Christ rises from among the Jewish prophets and is with God; soon the Jewish religion will be replaced by the new faith where we converse with saints and with God without fear. It is also a lesson of discipleship: the light of the Mount Tabor that struck even the Holy Apostles may become the gentle light inside, borne by the Catholic believer, the light that shines and illuminates our lives and drives the heresies away.

Water can mean many things, but baptism is in water:

But like I said, baptism may SOMETIMES be in water, baptism does not mean water...

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Again, baptism does not mean water...Noah was saved by floating in water...His flesh was saved...Actually, Noah was saved by the boat, not the water...Those around him DIED by the same water that saved Noah...And why was that??? What really saved Noah was that he believed God when God told him to build a boat that would float in the water...Surely we all understand that...

So now Peter says we have a 'like figure'...Baptism...Not water but baptism...Baptism does not mean water...But baptism in what??? Water??? Nope...It is not a water baptism that saves us...

This baptism here is an answer from us Christians...It is an answer of a good conscience toward God...Has nothing to do with someone pouring water on you...

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Like the verse says, this is a like figure of Noah getting saved, not the exact same thing...And while Moses was saved by bobbing in the water, it was because of his faith in God...

And as the verse clearly says, we do not get clean by a bubble bath but by a clear conscience...And as such, we are baptized with the Holy Ghost...

Noah was saved from physical death by having faith in God and God used a boat and water to save him...

We are saved from a spiritual death by having faith in Jesus Christ and God uses the Holy Ghost to save us...

You have to read the bible more than one verse at a time...

>> The Church does not "interpret"; it explains.<<

ROFLOL! So none of these are actual quotes?

"An infallible Bible is no use without an infallible interpreter..." (My Catholic Faith, p. 145).

"...The Scriptures can never serve as a complete Rule of Faith and a complete guide to heaven independently of an authorized, living interpreter." (The Faith of Our Fathers, p. 68).

"The Church is the only divinely constituted teacher of Revelation. Now, the Scripture is the great depository of the Word of God. Therefore, the Church is the divinely appointed Custodian and Interpreter of the Bible. For, her office of infallible Guide were superfluous if each individual could interpret the Bible for himself...God never intended the Bible to be the Christians' rule of faith independently of the living authority of the Church." (Ibid., p. 77).

"How can you get the true meaning of the Bible? You can get it only from God's official interpreter, the Catholic Church." (A Catechism for Adults page 10)

Or is there some double speak going on again?

Jesus is seen transfigured, indicating His future glorified body.

Now isn't that strange...Your religion tells you that Jesus in his glorified state in heaven looks just like he did while in the flesh, even with flesh and blood...

1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Elijah and Moses are not transfigured. This then shows their presence in heaven even before the General Judgment that we all await: it is Jesus and the two Hebrew saints in their condition now.

Not transfigured eh??? What, did they show up in a school bus with wings on it??? They aren't up there blinking on and off with the bodies they were born with...

But they also are in the presence of grace.

They were in the presence of grace before they went there, as Christians generally are...

"It is good to be here"-- St. Peter exclaims.

And indeed it is good to venerate a saint: it give your soul a comfort of knowing your future heavenly company;

Uh, sorry, what verse did you get that one from??? Oh, you just pulled it out of thin air and threw it in because gullible Catholics will eat it up???

it restored the believer's hope in his own salvation and invaluable advice, one that cannot be gotten from a person whose sanctification is yet incomplete, comes from a conversation with a saint. It is so good that Peter wants to build three tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah.

Now you went off the deep end...The apostles did not converse with Moses and Elijah...They didn't get any invaluable advice just as no humans get invaluable or otherwise advise from those in heaven...

Here, by the way, how the Tabernacle of Jesus looks:

Uh, Jesus does not have a tabernacle made with hands as the type of tabernacle you posted a picture clearly was...

Mar 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

It was the desire of Our Lord to gradually teach His people to properly venerate saints, to properly separate veneration from worship and to experience divine grace without fear.

Perhaps you got that from an Ouija Board but you certainly did not get that from God...That is as unbiblical as it gets...

There you have it...It must been some spirit drug up out of an Ouija Board because God never says anything remotely close to any thing like that...

It is one thing to make up or invent things that are not in the scripture but it is entirely something else when those inventions contradict the words of God in his scriptures...And that is what you are doing...

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