Veneration of Mary in Luke 11:27-28

August 15, 2013 | Annalex

[annalex]

Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:

Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)

What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:

Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)

The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source

Note that there is no condemnation here, not even asking the woman to stop; the "yea rather" (μενουνγε) is not a negation. It is used other times in the New Testament without a hint of negation. In Philippians 3:8 "αλλα μενουνγε και ηγουμαι παντα ζημιαν ειναι", "Furthermore I count all things to be but loss" (Textus Receptus 1550/1894, Byzantine/Majority Text 2000 has here "αλλα μεν ουν και ηγουμαι…" which is the same word morphology spelled separately and colliding affirmative "γε" with the following "και"). Romans 9:20 "μενουνγε ω ανθρωπε συ τις ει ο ανταποκρινομενος τω θεω" and Romans 10:18 "μενουνγε εις πασαν την γην εξηλθεν ο φθογγος αυτων" use the word reinforcing the subsequent statement. Some translations obscure this linguistic fact: in King James for example, the same word is rendered correctly, "yea rather" in Luke 11:28, wholly incongruously, "nay but" in Romans 9:20, but in Romans 10:18 the translation is again correct, "Yes verily". NRSV has both correct and elegant translations for all three. (See The Holy Mother and the "ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ")

Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.

[Elsie]

i'm talking about the religious traditions not specified in Scripture that Protestants cling to.

Like.... ?

[Elsie]

And the payments!

[Elsie]

or a 2 * 4!

[Elsie]

OK, what good works can be found that are not in the Law?

The LAW caused all BUT the Good Samaritan to pass by the injured man.

---

Psst...

It didn't fly at the Nuremburg trials either...

[Elsie]

...the tradition of sola scriptura.

Nice linkage; but STILL an oxymoron.

[CynicalBear]

Yep, those too! But hey! I ain’t paying $5 a gallon for milk or $1 each for cucumbers!

[Elsie]

Still clinging to your PROTESTant ‘tradition’ of John 6:28-29 I see.

[CynicalBear]

2x4s are just for mules.

[Elsie]

Drat!

You've probably awakened narses!

You b NUTS! if you think I'm gonna ping him!

[Elsie]

Well????

[Elsie]

Oh...WAIT!!!

I’m the talking ass!

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

...the tradition of sola scriptura. Nice linkage; but STILL an oxymoron.

That's incorrect. But regardless... so what? "Jumbo shrimp" may be an oxymoron, but it isn't a contradiction, unlike Luther's doctrine of sola scriptura.

What's important is that Luther's doctrine of "the Bible alone," as the sole rule of faith, isn't biblical.

That makes Luther's doctrine self-contradictory, or incoherent.

[CynicalBear]

>>What's important is that Luther's doctrine of "the Bible alone," as the sole rule of faith, isn't biblical.<<

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9

Please show a source other than scripture that proves the apostles taught the assumption of Mary.

[boatbums]

Indeed. The grace of God gives you both faith and good works in which you "walk". Read the Holy Scripture with attention and you too will understand that you are saved by grace alone through both faith and works that are an integral part of your Catholic faith.

I understand the "Roman" Catholic faith already and is why I rejected it many years ago when the Holy Spirit illuminated the truth of the Gospel to my eyes and heart. I am saved - we ALL are saved - by grace through faith APART from our works as Holy Scripture repeatedly states. I received God's word rather than the perverted and twisted one of fallible religious men. Those who presume to add their works to the propitiation for all our sins completed through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ once for all, will find that they have no grace available to them as it's ALL Christ or all them - it won't be a mixture. When we are told NO MAN may boast before God, we SHOULD believe He means it. I pray you may one day understand this truth and receive Jesus Christ as your Savior.

[boatbums]

So a faith without works is also dead "for others"? James says that? Where in the chapter -- or anywhere in the scripture -- a faith that is without works that saves one able to do the good work?

Thanks to CB for the link he gave, I think this explains it quite well:

A man may say, 'I have faith.' 'Well,' says James, 'show me your faith' - not God, but me - 'Prove it. Show me your faith by your works; that is, your works of faith'.

He continues, "What [is] the profit, my brethren, if any one say he have faith, but have not works?" and then he gives an example of a man who needs something and another says, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled" but does not give him what he needs. His works are contrary to his confession and so James declares, "So also faith, if it have not works, is dead by itself" - it does no good to say 'I am a believer' unless it is seen by works.

There may be some who say, "Thou hast faith and I have works", making a contradiction which does not exist. This is not the way. "Show me thy faith without works." - which is impossible, how can I show my faith to somebody without works of faith? ".and I from my works will show thee my faith" because that is the way to show faith before men.

Further, it is not enough just to have an orthodox confession of faith, for somebody may say 'I believe that God is one," but while that is good, "The demons even believe, and tremble," so only to have an orthodox confession of faith that there is one God is not saving faith, there must be works of faith to show before men the faith that is in the heart. So on the one hand we are justified by faith and not by the works of law as is the theme of the Galatian Epistle, for the only thing the law can bring upon the Galatians was the curse, blessing only comes through faith, but James now shows the other side, saying the same living faith in our hearts, which God sees, must be shown before men to justify us in the sight of men. (http://www.biblecentre.org/addresses/mv_faith_and_works_in_james.htm>)

[Iscool]

Protestant tradition interprets that verse as scripture only. A steering wheel makes a car complete, equipped for a good drive. But you also need an engine, tires etc.

The scripture is not the steering wheel, or a lug nut...The scripture is the entire car traveling down the Highway of God...

[Iscool]

I’m thinking what the Catholics are promoting sans any proof that the apostles taught it is “another gospel” and is to be accursed.

Well sure it is...God didn't authorize over 30,000 verses of scripture which included those verses that warn us about religions who come up perverting those scripture, just to give his church to one of those religions who is perverting the scriptures...

And it is not just that they pervert those scriptures with their phoney interpretations and traditions (which aren't traditions), they add to and remove from the scriptures words and phrases so they can make themselves equal with God, inventing doctrines and laws that no apostle nor prophet nor Jesus ever taught...

[smvoice]

You know the simplest way to understand this that a 4 year old can “get”? If God never changes His principles, and the RCC is constantly changing theirs to meet the “needs” of a changing world, well...

[CynicalBear]

>>they add to and remove from the scriptures words and phrases so they can make themselves equal with God, inventing doctrines and laws that no apostle nor prophet nor Jesus ever taught...<<

AKA Another gospel which is accursed.

[CynicalBear]

We are told that some are so blinded by Satan they will never “get it”. I pray that there will be those who see the error of what they believed when millions of people just disappear from this earth and they remember what we said. It won’t be pretty for them but they would at least have one last chance.