Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
Multiple layers have their uses; especially if one is trying to muddy the water.
Yup; all Christians do.
However, there is a subset of those folks who do an AWFUL lot more than that.
It only took 1143 replies to get the verse that SHOULD have been included in the original post.
Reminds me of my days as a DJ at WHSL (Whistle) Radio in Wilmington, NC. I was 16 and the British were coming...
The Hollies- Look through any window!
Look through any window yeah, what do you see?
Smilin’ faces all around rushin’ through the busy town
(Where do they go) movin’ on their way
Walkin’ down the highways and the by-ways
(Where do they go) movin’ on their way
People with their shy ways and their sly ways
Oh you can see the little children all around
Oh you can see the little ladies in their gowns when you
Look through any window yeah, any time of day
See the drivers on the roads pullin’ down their heavy loads
(Where do they go) movin’ on their way
Drivin’ down highways and the by-ways
(Where do they go) movin’ on their way
Drivers with their shy ways and their sly ways
Oh you can see the little children all around
Oh you can see the little ladies in their gowns when you
Look through any window yeah, what do you see?
Smiling faces all around rushin’ through the busy town
(Where do they go)
Movin’ on their way
Movin’ on their way
Movin’ on their way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQp1IDVZdCg
Which is used not to affirm that the faith that justifies is a faith that follows, (Jn. 10:27) but to support the fantasy that RCs actually manifest things which manifest regeneration while Protestant faith does not, despite the evidence to the contrary.
For rather than Rome actually preaching (if you can call their typical 10 minute droning sermonette "preaching") that souls are damned because of what they have done, not saved because of them, and must cast all their faith on the Lord Jesus to save them by His sinless shed blood, and that thus they will follow Him, as with a real complete God-given faith, which God sees before it acts and counts as righteousness;
Instead, while (disputably) allowing for "baptism by desire" in which the desire is counted for the act (thus faith without works being salvific) what Rome teaches is a system of salvation which fosters faith and codependence upon her, beginning with one becoming born again thru sprinkling, usually upon proxy faith as a morally insensible infant (who cannot fulfill the requirements for salvation), and ending with becoming good enough to enter Heaven, much thru her intercession.
It is good that you read the Holy Scripture; do more of it and you will come to the Catholic faith and be saved.
But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. [22] Even the justice of God, by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe in him: for there is no distinction: [23] For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God. [24] Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus, [25] Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins, [26] Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of his justice in this time; that he himself may be just, and the justifier of him, who is of the faith of Jesus Christ. [27] Where is then thy boasting? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. [28] For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law. (Romans 3)
This says that we are saved by grace and that faith justifies without works of the law. Now. Catholic teaching.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith, in all nations, for his name (Romans 1:5)We receive grace of Christ and should obey the Catholic faith. Catholic teaching.
[17] But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart, unto that form of doctrine, into which you have been delivered. [18] Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice. [19] I speak an human thing, because of the infirmity of your flesh. For as you have yielded your members to serve uncleanness and iniquity, unto iniquity; so now yield your members to serve justice, unto sanctification. (Romans 6)Serve justice for now you are freed form sin, and you will obtain sanctification. Catholic teaching.
[15] But I have written to you, brethren, more boldly in some sort, as it were putting you in mind: because of the grace which is given me from God. [16] That I should be the minister of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles; sanctifying the gospel of God, that the oblation of the Gentiles may be made acceptable and sanctified in the Holy Ghost. [17] I have therefore glory in Christ Jesus towards God. [18] For I dare not to speak of any of those things which Christ worketh not by me, for the obedience of the Gentiles, by word and deed, [19] By the virtue of signs and wonders, in the power of the Holy Ghost, so that from Jerusalem round about as far as unto Illyricum, I have replenished the gospel of Christ. (Romans 15)Not sure what I am to get out of this that is somehow supportive of Protestant heresies.
Thank you for quoting the scripture that describes so clearly the necessity of Catholic faith for salvation by grace alone.
LOL. Every once in a while you post idiotic statements like this and then you expect me to may attention to anything you post? I don't think there is a law that I should explain the Holy Scripture to you, is there?
Here's a place where it says by faith and doesn't mention works. [Ephesians 1:3-14]
Right, but neither does it make a general statement. This is to Ephesians in whom St. Paul finds nothing wanting and he praises them for they are on the road to gain their "inheritance". This describes all Catholics today also.
Romans 3:21-30
The point is that Roman laws or Jewish religious laws do not justify, whereas faith is the road to justification for Jews and Gentiles alike. That is Catholic teaching.
Sorry if I were too dismissive, but I really do not have much interest in learning of Protestant problems in trying to venerate the saints, especially the Mother of God whose veneration is established in the very gospel you pretend to follow. You need to get the fundamentals of Catholic faith right first. Wait for the book.
Indeed. The grace of God gives you both faith and good works in which you "walk". Read the Holy Scripture with attention and you too will understand that you are saved by grace alone through both faith and works that are an integral part of your Catholic faith.
So a faith without works is also dead "for others"? James says that? Where in the chapter -- or anywhere in the scripture -- a faith that is without works that saves one able to do the good work?
..but here you are, in your last sentence, stumbling at that stumblingstone. “For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; NOT of works, lest any man should boast.” Eph. 2:8,9. The stumblingstone that gets you every time.
... only if one is unable to be baptized in water, like the thief on the cross. Believe whatever heresy you want but do not misinterpret the Catholic faith that I explained to you on this point a number of times. Baptism is, first, not any kind of work: it is a Holy Mystery; and second, baptism of desire is not an example of salvation without the sacrament, but only sacrament without the sacramental.
Learn, then opine.
Ever read verse 10?
Of course I have, annalex. It means what it says and says what it means: we (those who are saved) are created IN Christ Jesus unto good works. The question is: how are we IN Christ Jesus? By accepting the finished work of Christ on our behalf. That’s called salvation.
Your church hangs onto a rock they call Peter, takes one step forward and trips over the Eph. 2:8,9 stumblingstone. You would be better off if you claimed that rock was indeed Christ. There would be no stumblingstone, if that were the case.
Good!
You took the bait!
Now then; just WHAT was His 'command(s)' again?
Mary is dead.
"...call her blessed..." is NOT veneration.
I 'opine' that you 'learned' this somewhere other than the Bible.
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