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Veneration of Mary in Luke 11:27-28
August 15, 2013 | Annalex

Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex

Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:

Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)

What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:

Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)

The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source
Note that there is no condemnation here, not even asking the woman to stop; the "yea rather" (μενουνγε) is not a negation. It is used other times in the New Testament without a hint of negation. In Philippians 3:8 "αλλα μενουνγε και ηγουμαι παντα ζημιαν ειναι", "Furthermore I count all things to be but loss" (Textus Receptus 1550/1894, Byzantine/Majority Text 2000 has here "αλλα μεν ουν και ηγουμαι…" which is the same word morphology spelled separately and colliding affirmative "γε" with the following "και"). Romans 9:20 "μενουνγε ω ανθρωπε συ τις ει ο ανταποκρινομενος τω θεω" and Romans 10:18 "μενουνγε εις πασαν την γην εξηλθεν ο φθογγος αυτων" use the word reinforcing the subsequent statement. Some translations obscure this linguistic fact: in King James for example, the same word is rendered correctly, "yea rather" in Luke 11:28, wholly incongruously, "nay but" in Romans 9:20, but in Romans 10:18 the translation is again correct, "Yes verily". NRSV has both correct and elegant translations for all three. (See The Holy Mother and the "ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ")

Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary
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To: RobbyS
The evangelical anti-Marianism always make me think...

About Catholic doctrine; evidently.

81 posted on 08/16/2013 2:40:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

The angel shows up and tells her how it’s going to be.

Mary’s stating “May your word to me be fulfilled.” is NOT an acceptance of a choice given her.

Gab was relaying a message from GOD: period.


82 posted on 08/16/2013 2:44:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

After three days, Jesus sent a man named Ananias to restore Paul’s sight.

When Ananias hesitated because of Paul’s destructive reputation, Jesus made it clear that Paul was now God’s servant.

“The Lord said to Ananias, ‘Go! This man is My chosen instrument to carry My name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel”

—Acts 9:15


83 posted on 08/16/2013 2:46:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Well, it was a little more complicated than that. Charles V decided that he wanted to rule Germany (the Holy Roman Empire) rather than just reign. Plus he has incurred the wrath of Francis I and the jealousy of Henry VIII by outbidding them for the German throne. Plus they were not happy about the gold that was leaving the country for Rome, primarily for a new Crusade but which was being used to build churches in Rome, and to protect the papal states from the other Italian princes. Luther’s reforms were a useful tool for princes in their resistance to the Kaiser and to the papal taxation.
84 posted on 08/16/2013 2:53:55 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Elsie

That Catholic doctrine is trinitarian and the protests about Mary are a cover for Arianism other doctrines that reject the doctrine of the Incarnation.


85 posted on 08/16/2013 2:57:36 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
Well, it was a little more complicated than that.

Rome/CC is all about confusion, complications and untruths.

Luther, doing the will of The Father, exposed them for being counterfeit/teaching untruths and he's been a thorn in their side every since.

86 posted on 08/16/2013 3:03:47 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: RobbyS
That Catholic doctrine is trinitarian

That Catholic doctrine is their own and it's meant to oppose God's Word and it does. HIS WORD is the final authority. Not man's word.

If HIS WORD isn't one's final authority - then they don't belong to HIM because they listen and obey 'another'. Satan has his own kingdom disguised as 'religious' and w/all the words and pomp to deceive.

87 posted on 08/16/2013 3:11:04 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: daniel1212
those who searched the Scriptures

That, with respect, Protestantism has not done honestly.

88 posted on 08/16/2013 5:55:40 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: HarleyD; daniel1212

Mary was not protected from all sin, but only from original sin — a wholly different category.

Secondly, she could have lawfully declined at the Annunciation as any woman may. That would not have been a sin.

For purity, we do our part and God does His part, for we are sentient human beings with free will.


89 posted on 08/16/2013 5:59:33 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: BipolarBob
She was mother of the human side of Jesus

That would have been the first time a woman gave birth to a "side".

90 posted on 08/16/2013 6:00:34 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: BlueDragon
Indeed, the Jews had their own reason to sneer at veneration of saints, for they believed the entire Christianity is a form of polytheism. Their concern about veneration of saints is logical, Protestant concern is not, since the Holy Scripture gives us ample examples of intercessory prayer, praiseworthy martyrdom, augmentatuon of abilities after death in a state of grace, and life eternal (see my #41)

Regarding the version, the same question can be put of the Holy Scripture. I gave the link to newagvent.org where I found the translation. Here is is again.

91 posted on 08/16/2013 6:06:48 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Elsie

Yes, honey, we had bad popes and probably will have bad popes some more.


92 posted on 08/16/2013 6:07:31 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: topher
It is a unknown bystander who praises Mary.

Yes, so this is exactly the pattern of veneration of saints today. It is not a requirement, but a spontaneous expression of faith in life eternal granted to Catholic and Orthodox Christians by Jesus Christ. It is also significant that Jesus augments and corrects the manner of veneration, but does not stop the veneration itself.

We can speculate whether He would have stopped a spontaneous veneration of Judas, but the Holy Scripture does not record such an incident, but instead records this one, for our instruction. Let us learn.

93 posted on 08/16/2013 6:11:24 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
That would have been the first time a woman gave birth to a "side".

Jesus was/is unique. The God part of Him had no mother. To say Mary is the Mother of God is blasphemy. God has no mother, neither beginning nor end. I am sure you are a nice person with good intentions.

94 posted on 08/16/2013 6:50:52 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: annalex; daniel1212
That, with respect, Protestantism has not done honestly.

So says the judgmental papist.

95 posted on 08/16/2013 6:53:04 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: BipolarBob
To say Mary is the Mother of God is blasphemy.

Jesus is God.

Mary is Jesus' mother.

Mary is the Mother of God.

Pretty simple.

96 posted on 08/16/2013 6:55:31 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Jesus is God.

Was Jesus ever man? Was He ever born like man? Did He die like man? Can man kill God?

Mary is the Mother of God. Pretty simple.

Simple minded. God has no mother, beginning nor end. I guess you have spent years being conditioned to spout this . . . stuff and are not to blame. The birth of Jesus was a supernatural event and we cannot comprehend or state with any authority how Jesus can be both man and God. But Catholics have no problem braying their beliefs in their effort to elevate Mary into something God never intended.

97 posted on 08/16/2013 7:20:08 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: BipolarBob

-— God has no mother-—

Mary isn’t Jesus’ Mother? Jesus isn’t God? That’s not what my Bible says.


98 posted on 08/16/2013 7:39:06 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
That’s not what my Bible says.

You can't comprehend what your Bible says because of the RCC programming. I'm sorry. Peace be to you.

99 posted on 08/16/2013 7:42:05 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: BipolarBob

Look at the ac count of the Visitation.

Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, says, “And how is this that the Mother of my Lord (Mother of God) should come to me? For the moment I heard your voice the babe leaped in my womb!” (Paraphrasing)


100 posted on 08/16/2013 7:54:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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