The Big Discovery [by David, former Presbyterian]

Journeyof ImperfectSaint.blogspot.com ^ | October 4, 2009 | David

[Salvation]

Sunday, October 4, 2009

The Big Discovery

        I made some good friends outside my church and found out that they were all Catholics.  Now, I did not know much about Catholicism at the time.  By the way, the Mass did seem somewhat mysterious to me externally.  In fact, what little I had heard from other church members was all negative.  There was a Mrs. J at my church, who had just retired from her missionary post in China.  She was such a kind and endearing soul to all.  One day she got back from visiting someone at a hospital and looked extremely sad and disturbed.  It turned out that when she got to the hospital room, she saw that a Catholic priest was already there with the patient.  Now the question was if the patient would ever get to heaven. 

 

        Nevertheless, my Catholic friends all looked quite normal and happy.  Then could the Catholic Church, the largest church in the the world, be in error?  It so happened that at that time I was also beginning to question my Protestant faith.  The fact that there were numerous different denominations around the world bothered me.  Also, as a Protestant, whether you're a minister or lay person, you are free to marry and divorce any number of times.  It's hard to see that Jesus would be happy with these two facts.  Since I am the kind of person who always likes to find the answer to any question that's important, I decided to look into Catholicism.

 

        I made up my mind not to talk to anyone about my investigation.  I was single then and had a lot of free time to myself.  The local public library housed an excellent collection of books on Catholicism, so I started borrowing books on the subject.  I read every weekend, even taking notes as I read.  The went on for over a year.  I read all those books that viciously attack the Catholic Church too, but somehow they did not affect me much because I sensed that these attacks could not have been prompted by the Holy Spirit.  The books that really helped me were the ones on early Church history.  I could see that the continuity was there and the beliefs and practices of the early Church had been preserved to this day in the Catholic Church.  The only conclusion I could come to was that the Catholic Church was indeed the church Jesus had come and established.  Like Christ himself, the Church, being his body, must be accepted (or rejected) totally, with no middle ground. 

 

        Here's some advice for those who seek the truth.  Your chances of success will greatly improve if, first, you start out with a completely open mind and secondly, go to the source(s) directly to get the facts.  Many who misunderstand the Catholic Church today have already made up their mind that the Church is wrong, thus never bothering to pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church to find out what the Church really teaches.  This is being close-minded. 

[Iscool]

Then why do “Bible” churches differ on so much?

They do not differ on so much...

It is quite evident that merely reading the Holy Book is not enough for some to know the truth of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

That is not at all evident to me and millions of other born again Christians...

Apparently it's only evident to those who do not go to the scriptures in prayer, but rely on and insist that someone tell them what God says and means...

Sit in a quiet room for a few hours with an open bible and ask God to show you something (while you read it)...I'd recommend the New Testament...

[Iscool]

Most of the Catholics here tend to back up their statements with Scripture not stories.

Only one problem with that statement...We read the posts that you guys submit and scripture is a very rare commodity to be found in your posts...

[CynicalBear]

>>When you see that happen, let me know. I'd like to see something besides the CCC, various and sundry mystics, prophets, and church fathers.<<

No kidding! I was thinking the same thing. Not once has a Catholic posted scripture showing the bodily assumption of Mary or the designation as queen of heaven. Very seldom is scripture given as authority by Catholics and if scripture is quoted it’s soon shown to be in error per the rest of scripture.

[CynicalBear]

>>When you see that happen, let me know. I'd like to see something besides the CCC, various and sundry mystics, prophets, and church fathers.<<

No kidding! I was thinking the same thing. Not once has a Catholic posted scripture showing the bodily assumption of Mary or the designation as queen of heaven. Very seldom is scripture given as authority by Catholics and if scripture is quoted it’s soon shown to be in error per the rest of scripture.

[Salvation]

We do read the Scriptures, sometimes even more than other denominations might.

I have been to a non-Catholic service and NO SCRIPTURE at all was read or quoted.

Sickening. It was just the minister’s opinion.

[daniel1212]

Your premise, as often explained, basically that being the instruments and stewards of Divine revelation confers assured veracity of interpretation, is fallacious, as it effectively nukes the church, which began in dissent from those who were explicitly (unlike the church of Rome) affirmed to be the instruments and stewards of Divine revelation, (Rm. 3:2; 19:4) and recipients of Divine promises of guidance, the Lord’s presence, and perpetuation, (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; cf. Mt. 23:2 etc.) and had the rightful claim to historical decent (Mt., 23:2);

yet who presumed more than was written, (cf. 1Cor. 4:6) and were reproved by Scripture from an itinerant Preacher (Mk. 7:3-16)
whose authority they rejected, (Mk. 11:28-33) but who established His claims upon Scriptural substantiation in text and in power, (Jn. 10: 37; 5:36,39; Mt. 22:29; Lk. 24:44, etc.) Divine writings themselves being supernaturally established due to their Divine qualities and attestation, without an assuredly infallible magisterium of men.

And thus from the beginning Peter, Paul and others labored to substantiate the truth claims for and of the church by Scripture and the attestation it promised. (Acts 2:14:-36; 4:33; 5:12; 7:1-53; 13:16-41; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

In addition, while the canon was largely settled early on, Roman Catholics did not have an infallible, indisputable canon until the year Luther died (1546), over 14000 years after the last book was written, as there was some dissent right into Trent. (http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ancients_on_Scripture.html#2)

In addition, Protestants have at least as much assurance that they have all the books of Scripture than RCs have as to all the infallible teachings of their supreme authority, the supreme magisterium.

[Iscool]

I have been to a non-Catholic service and NO SCRIPTURE at all was read or quoted.

Odd...I have never been to a Protestant church where scripture was not read during a service...What church was it???

[presently no screen name]

Catholicism is man’s opinion - void of TRUTH.

God’s Word ALONE reigns in HIS CHURCH as JESUS IS THE Cornerstone in HIS Church.

Jesus answered, “I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE. No one comes to the Father except through ME.

JESUS THE WORD REIGNS.

[roamer_1]

You'd be further ahead becoming familiar with the Christ of the Bible than the books of the saints who know the apostles who.......

The attributions and provenance of these books are questionable to say the very least. Propaganda... From the modern inventors, and proven purveyors thereof.

Go to the source!

AMEN!

[Salvation]

Catholicism is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 4 Marks of the Church
Radio Replies Second Volume - Holiness of the Church
One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic: Marks of the Church Building as well as the Church Herself
The 15 Marks of The Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Marks of the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic
Four Marks of the Church Four Marks of the Church
One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic: The Marks of Christ's Church [Ecumenical]

[Engedi]

This is true. My sis in law is a very devout Catholic, very involved with the church, memorized the Saints, goes to Catholic Pilgrimage down in Ohio, recites the rosary, etc. She votes Democrat. I asked how could she vote for Obama with his stance on abortion, esp late term. She told me well, Republicans believe in Capital punishment and War; also taking of innocent lives. So there you have it folks.

Innocent babies with no choice like war, haven’t been convicted of any crime but yet that is ok to kill them....

[daniel1212]

That is not much to counter supposed successors to Peter, while i did and do not defend whatever is called Protestantism, and which, being many, cannot be compared with one church. And which is only one of many Catholic and other sola ecclesia churches she is divided from, with substantially divisions within, outside a basic unity, and effectively only rules over herself, and cannot necessarily claim any greater holiness or unity than other particular body of churches.

And Rome is one of the most liberal as regards what she most predominately effectually produces, and on the pertinent issue you seem to be responding to, then Rome has a major problem of a homosexual nature.

15 percent of the clergy polled listed themselves as “gay or on the homosexual side.” Among younger priests 23 percent did so. Los Angeles Times (extensive) nationwide survey (2002). http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/reports/LAT-Priest-Survey.pdf

44 percent of the priests said “definitely” a homosexual subculture’—defined as a `definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary’—exists in their diocese or religious order. ^

After examining the official web sites of 244 Catholic universities and colleges in America, the TFP Student Action found that 107 – or 43% have pro-homosexual clubs. TFP Student Action Dec. 6. 2011; studentaction.org/get-involved/online-petitions/pro-homosexual-clubs-at-107-catholic-colleges/print.html

Of course, abuse by teachers is far greater than both:

The American Medical Association found in 1986 that one in four girls, and one in eight boys, are sexually abused in or out of school before the age of 18. Two years later, a study included in The Handbook on Sexual Abuse of Children, reported that one in four girls, and one in six boys, is sexually abused by age 18.[xxix] It was reported in 1991 that 17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. teacher.[xxx]

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/reports/2004_02_CatholicLeague_SexualAbuse.htm

[grey_whiskers]

[daniel1212]

RCs are driven to make supremacist, elitist assertions in preaching their church (and some substitute, not supplement, links for arguments) and then complain about all the lightning it attracts.

[Religion Moderator]

For something to be "making it personal" it must be speaking of another Freeper, personally.

For instance, if I said "Buddhists are mindless." that would not be "making it personal." But if I said "You are mindless." that would be "making it personal."

[Hootowl]

You’re apparently unaware that Kennedy divorced his wife Joan in 1981, and had the marriage annulled by the Catholic Church in 1992 so he could remarry in the church. The annulment, according to Kennedy’s biography Clymer, was on the grounds that Kennedy never intended to be faithful to his wife, therefore the marriage was fraudulent. Of course, one effect of annulment, meaning that the marriage never happened according to the Catholic church, is that his children, Patrick, Edward, and Kara, were not born of a union recognized by the Catholic Church, i.e., bastards. I think you need to take another look at what the Catholic Church does (tens of thousands of annulments every year) and quit pretending to be holier than other Christians.

[Natural Law]

"...then Rome has a major problem of a homosexual nature."

I would advise you to simply ignore this most recent installment of autopuffery. When anyone has to resort to push polls conducted by the LA Times to substantiate accusations you know the level of desperation and the lack of regard for the truth. I'm sure that many who read and believe such nonsense believe they have a godly mandate to save the pagan babies from the clutches of a Roman hell, but all we can do is to pray for them.

Peace be with you.

[metmom]

I have been to a non-Catholic service and NO SCRIPTURE at all was read or quoted.

*a* non-Catholic service? Just one?

And you claim that NO Scripture was read or quoted? At all?

You're sure?

Do you know enough of the Bible to be able to determine that?

[Natural Law]

"Of course, one effect of annulment, meaning that the marriage never happened according to the Catholic church, is that his children, Patrick, Edward, and Kara, were not born of a union recognized by the Catholic Church, i.e., bastards."

The legitimacy of a child or children is a civil and Legal matter. Church declarations of nullity have no civil effects.

Peace be with you.

[married21]

I think it’s about 6% better for the general population of people who say they are Catholic. It’s a lot better for those who are observant Catholics, and for Catholics who are observant and do natural family planning that harmonizes with Church teaching, the “stay-married” rate is above 95%.

(I took NFP classes some years ago, and I think those were the statistics I was given.)