The Big Discovery [by David, former Presbyterian]

Journeyof ImperfectSaint.blogspot.com ^ | October 4, 2009 | David

[Salvation]

Sunday, October 4, 2009

The Big Discovery

        I made some good friends outside my church and found out that they were all Catholics.  Now, I did not know much about Catholicism at the time.  By the way, the Mass did seem somewhat mysterious to me externally.  In fact, what little I had heard from other church members was all negative.  There was a Mrs. J at my church, who had just retired from her missionary post in China.  She was such a kind and endearing soul to all.  One day she got back from visiting someone at a hospital and looked extremely sad and disturbed.  It turned out that when she got to the hospital room, she saw that a Catholic priest was already there with the patient.  Now the question was if the patient would ever get to heaven. 

 

        Nevertheless, my Catholic friends all looked quite normal and happy.  Then could the Catholic Church, the largest church in the the world, be in error?  It so happened that at that time I was also beginning to question my Protestant faith.  The fact that there were numerous different denominations around the world bothered me.  Also, as a Protestant, whether you're a minister or lay person, you are free to marry and divorce any number of times.  It's hard to see that Jesus would be happy with these two facts.  Since I am the kind of person who always likes to find the answer to any question that's important, I decided to look into Catholicism.

 

        I made up my mind not to talk to anyone about my investigation.  I was single then and had a lot of free time to myself.  The local public library housed an excellent collection of books on Catholicism, so I started borrowing books on the subject.  I read every weekend, even taking notes as I read.  The went on for over a year.  I read all those books that viciously attack the Catholic Church too, but somehow they did not affect me much because I sensed that these attacks could not have been prompted by the Holy Spirit.  The books that really helped me were the ones on early Church history.  I could see that the continuity was there and the beliefs and practices of the early Church had been preserved to this day in the Catholic Church.  The only conclusion I could come to was that the Catholic Church was indeed the church Jesus had come and established.  Like Christ himself, the Church, being his body, must be accepted (or rejected) totally, with no middle ground. 

 

        Here's some advice for those who seek the truth.  Your chances of success will greatly improve if, first, you start out with a completely open mind and secondly, go to the source(s) directly to get the facts.  Many who misunderstand the Catholic Church today have already made up their mind that the Church is wrong, thus never bothering to pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church to find out what the Church really teaches.  This is being close-minded. 

[Salvation]

Let me encourage you to also pick up the Catechism. A lot of fact in there.

[AnAmericanMother]

And who do you think compiled your Bible?

Why doesn't the Bible have the Gospel of Thomas, or the Gospel of Mary, or the Gospel of Judas, or the Didache, or . . . ?

Because the Bishops, the successors of the Apostles, declared which books would be put together to form the Bible. They did this in the 4th century.

Go ahead and take a look at the Catechism. It's filled with Biblical references and footnotes, in fact, it's mostly Scripture.

[metmom]

Nothing against the Catholic Church, but I am more interested in picking up the Bible to find out what it really teaches.

Now why would you want to do that? Dontcha know that we unwashed are not capable of understanding it? It has to be interpreted for us.

[AnAmericanMother]

Depends on how you count Catholics.

Like secular Jews, there are "catholics" that never go to Mass, never read the Bible, never practice any religion, but still self-identify as "catholic" because their parents, grandparents, etc. were Catholic. Like secular Jews, they worship the State.

They skew the heck out of the statistics. If your survey asks the simple question "how many times have you attended Mass in the last year?" and count only the folks that go twice a month or more, you get a whole different picture. Not only on divorce, but on support for Obama, Obamacare, etc.

[AnAmericanMother]

2nd Peter 3:16.

Even Martin Luther decided it was a dumb idea for "every milkmaid to interpret Scripture".

It's usually harmless, but occasionally you get something like the Episcopalians. They insist that their interpretations of Scripture are inspired by the Holy Spirit . . . and how exactly is one to say otherwise?

[metmom]

Depends on whether or not they’re being counted to tell us that the Catholic church is the biggest church in the world with 1.2 billion strong.

Virtually every Catholic I know, am related to, and have worked with, has fallen into the liberal, Democrat category and most ARE the ones who go to church more than once a week, observe all the holy days, etc.

There is simply no overall correlation between church attendance and participation in parish life and conservatism. Yes, I have met a few conservative Catholics, but precious few.

[metmom]

Depends on how you count Catholics.

Like secular Jews, there are "catholics" that never go to Mass, never read the Bible, never practice any religion, but still self-identify as "catholic" because their parents, grandparents, etc. were Catholic. Like secular Jews, they worship the State.

They skew the heck out of the statistics. If your survey asks the simple question "how many times have you attended Mass in the last year?" and count only the folks that go twice a month or more, you get a whole different picture. Not only on divorce, but on support for Obama, Obamacare, etc.

Then the same standard ought to be applied to Protestants and Evangelicals.

But Protestants are not cut that same kind of slack by Catholics on this board. On the contrary, we are told that the reason any former Catholic has left the Catholic faith is due to moral failure in our private lives and just so that they can divorce and remarry freely.

And I am not the only former Catholic who has been told that by Catholics.

[AnAmericanMother]

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

If you look at professionally conducted surveys that screen Catholics as noted, you will see exactly the results described.

I think younger Catholics (including young priests) are the ones that will surprise you as both orthodox Catholics and very conservative politically.

No honest Catholic who's attending a parish pastored by a faithful priest (as opposed to a hireling shepherd like Fr. Pfleger) can support Obama at this point. Period. End of story. The bishops are waking up to this fact at the moment.

[AnAmericanMother]

It's a little harder to survey "Protestants" or "Evangelicals" as a group, because there are so many variants (e.g. it's a fur piece from the above-mentioned Episcopalians to the Church of God of Prophecy or the Nazarenes. Some Episcopalians self-describe as "evangelical". And many Baptists insist that they are not "protestant".) And it is far more difficult to obtain a benchmark for who is practicing their faith and who is just calling themselves something. You might be able to weed out backsliding Southern Baptists by asking who shows up at church on Wednesdays . . . but that may be purely a local custom. I don't know.

[metmom]

And it is far more difficult to obtain a benchmark for who is practicing their faith and who is just calling themselves something.

And the exact thing can be applied to Catholics. I grew up in a HEAVILY Catholic area. I grew up in a Catholic family, had relatives who were/are priests and nuns. I went to school with and worked with Catholics who by all that FRoman Catholics say ought to be conservative. They are NOT.

They vote liberal and democrat, knowing FULL WELL the dems stand on abortion.

When we (non-Catholics) at work asked the Catholics why they voted democrat with the abortion issue, their response? *Because the Democrats are for the poor."

And these are faithfully practicing Catholics, active in their parishes. Anecdote or not, this is what grassroots Catholics think like and live like.

And there are plenty of other former Catholics from other areas of the country who concur.

And of course, the charges made by Catholics on this board are also for the most part anecdotal.

[Salvation]

**88And of course, the charges made by Catholics on this board are also for the most part anecdotal.**

Are you into mind-reading again?

[grey_whiskers]

Oh boy. This thread is going to get ugly.

You just had to go and say that, didn't you?

Cheers!

[daniel1212]

And if the expose Rome then they are dismissed as having a bad motive.

[Jvette]

Just curious....from whom did you learn the Bible?

No one has ever come to knowledge of Scripture without someone leading them to it, someone who translated it into their language and someone who has studied the original language.

It is quite evident that merely reading the Holy Book is not enough for some to know the truth of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Think I’m wrong?

Then why do “Bible” churches differ on so much?

The Catholic Church is the church of the Bible. It is her book written by her early leaders through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Who better to understand the complexities within it that are used to confound and confuse?

I truly mean no disrespect to Protestants. I know that they are Christian believers and want only to follow Christ. The Catechism does not replace or cancel out the Bible, it is the theology of the Church which is the study of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and their relationship to us and ours to them.

[daniel1212]

Yes, another one of the incessant threads preaching a Church, that of asserting Rome as the One True Church all are to submit to, and denigrating all others as being deficient, in faith, while excluding that one could leave Rome due to objective seeking, and due to spiritual deficiency in Rome;

And reiterating the same old refuted RC polemics, ultimately resting on Rome infallible defining that she is infallible, then complaining when such Catholic exaltation draws fire, and dismissing reproof as due to ill motive.

[metmom]

Are you into mind-reading again?

Not as much as the Catholics who tell me that I left the Catholic church for moral failure or that I wanted to get a divorce, not considering that I left the Catholic church well before I got married.

[Salvation]

I didn’t ask you about your marriage. I was talking about your statement of “anecdotal.”

Most of the Catholics here tend to back up their statements with Scripture not stories.

Why are you saying we post anecdotes?

Or have you never heard of witnessing?

[Salvation]

Where are you getting these ideas about the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church has been here for over 2000 years.

I’m not dense, it just I really am curious about where you get such false information. Or is that just your opinion? If it is your opinion, then why do you not post it as such with an “I” statement?

[metmom]

Most of the Catholics here tend to back up their statements with Scripture not stories.

When you see that happen, let me know. I'd like to see something besides the CCC, various and sundry mystics, prophets, and church fathers.

[roamer_1]

The books that really helped me were the ones on early Church history

It is that supposed history which has convinced me beyond any doubt that the Roman church doesn't have a leg to stand on.