Posted on 11/26/2011 3:33:54 PM PST by Iggles Phan
My problem with the 'Rapture' (pre-millenial; pre-tribulation) teaching is that it forces its adherents to actually REVERSE the Person of Jesus Christ to the Devil.
That's correct.
In the 'Rapture' (or Dispensational) scheme the believer is asked to take the Person of Daniel's 70th Week (Who is Jesus Christ at the Cross) described in Chapter 9, verse 27a:
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ..."
... and reverse this 'he' to mean a 'future Antichrist'.
Are you confused?
Is this Jesus Christ or Antichrist?
1. The Historic View.
This view is typified by the 1599 Geneva Bible notes. These are the notes of John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, and John Knox to name a few.
1599 Geneva Bible Notes on Daniel 9:27a:
"By the preaching of the gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection."
It's pretty clear that the Reformers believed that Christ was the Person of Daniel's Great 70th Week.
2. The Modernist View (Dispensational).
In contrast however, compare this historic view to the Dispensational view typified in the Ryrie Study Notes (1978). Look who the modernists assign to this very same Person in Daniel 9:27a:
"The prince of verse 26, the Antichrist previously introduced in 7:8, 24-26, who will make a pact with many (of the Jewish people) at the beginning of the tribulation period. But in the middle of the week (i.e., 3 1/2 years later) Antichrist will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple by demanding worship of himself in it."
The difference couldn't be farther apart.
Historic Christianity says that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week AT THE CROSS, but Rapture Christianity (Dispensationalism) says that the Devil fulfills it in a 're-built' temple.
Therefore, Dispensationalism is no less than a frontal assault on the Cross of Christ. It reverses Jesus Christ to the Devil. It is malicious and a pernicious doctrine.
Remember, this Dispensational view was NEVER known until 1830. That's why it is a Modernist view. It was invented by JN Darby and popularized by CI Scofield, two con-men to Christianity.
In the 20th century, carpetbaggers such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack (and Rexella) Van Impe, John Hagee and others have made fame and fortune off of this con game. They have marketed this 'Rapture' theology like a cheap box of laundry detergent on TV and radio, and with videos and books.
My hope and prayer is that the Church starts to wake up out of its slumber and starts challenging its pastors, ministries, and teachers. The Cross of Christ is at stake here!
For the Glory of Christ Jesus. Amen.
IF you really believe that, there REALLY IS NO shred of a hope of any rational discourse with you.
What a perversely idiotic response to my fairly clear post.
Sheesh. INCREDIBLE.
I’m working on a commentary on the 3 verses—Daniel 9:24-27.
It may be that in my mind, I’ve kind of mushed them all together. So, I am putting them in tabular format and we’ll see what I think useful to pontificate about step by step through them.
I’m working on a commentary on the 3 verses—Daniel 9:24-27.
It may be that in my mind, I’ve kind of mushed them all together. So, I am putting them in tabular format and we’ll see what I think useful to pontificate about step by step through them.
Everyone knows what I'm talking about. You believe a "doctrine" that is in complete opposition to what God has written. If you "can't understand" me, it's because you don't know Christ as Savior, you are not a Christian, and you cannot understand the things of God. You can't even produce one verse of Scripture to validate what you believe. So the fact that you "can't understand" is due entirely to the fact that you don't know Christ. That's not something anyone can help you with.
Please take the time and quote the verses and claims in ‘contradiction’.
Post 153 took care of you and your denials and contradictions of Scripture. I notice you have not been able to respond to that post, and I understand. You like to try to slip in your contradictions and denials of Scripture "under the radar" so to speak but then you run into people who know Scripture and don't have the stupidity to put themselves on the level of God and declare that what He has written is false and who expose you for what you are doing and you don't have anything to say.
In case you haven't notices already, it's over for you. Your lies about Scripture have been exposed, and you really don't have anything more to say.
Basically, you're finished and your thread is a typical Bible-denying fraud that we've seen a million times. But don't worry - salvation will still be available during the seven-year Tribulation. Maybe then your eyes will be opened.
Let's see if you can give us one verse of Scripture where God gives man the authority to deny anything He has written, and where God says that a Christian will deny His word. Give us anything in Scripture that authorizes man to deny what God has said. Give us anything that God says that a man can call Him a liar and still be a Christian.
This is not difficult. I know there is no Scripture to support what you "believe", but a simple Google search should help you in finding where God says that man can deny His words and get away with it.
Good luck. In the meantime, those of us who take God literally, like Jesus Christ did when He was on earth, will stick to the fact that those who continually deny the word of God have to do so because if the Bible is true then they are doomed. If the Bible is not a threat, then there is no need to constantly and repeatedly deny it's truth.
Good luck with your endeavors to find Biblical support for denying the Bible.
Has anyone ever instructed you on what that means?
Remember, the first person to deny the words of God was Satan.
This is what we're dealing with.
LOL!!!!!!
Bingo
I am truly sorry I forgot to ping you Quix.
Lest I forget again, consider this my courtesy ping to one of the most discourteous “Christians” I have ever had the misfortune to read.
There’s got to be one in every crowd......
No, noob. YOUR credibility is at stake.
What WAS your previous screen name?
Maybe Christian Capitalist?
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
“In the 20th century, carpetbaggers such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack (and Rexella) Van Impe, John Hagee and others have made fame and fortune off of this con game”
If so...so what? They hardly speak for everyone or even a majority and they are certainly no worse than the faith healers and “good humor” men that fill their pockets by peddling the word.
Like..get a grip!
bkmk
I figured there’d be an addendum.
BTW, life-giving
TRUTH
IS courteous whether it FEELS GOOD, or not.
I think I'll do a table commentary on those verses . . . I may be mushing them all together in my outrage at the incredible cluelessness of the preterists as they willy nilly mangle God's Holy Word.
| Verse # | NEW LIVING TRANSLATION | THE MESSAGE | QUIX's COMMENTARY | Quix Amplifications, notes; Some from: NIV Full Life Study Bible Commentary |
| --24-- | 24“A period of seventy sets of seven[c] has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[d] | 24 "'Seventy sevens are set for your people and for your holy city to throttle rebellion, stop sin, wipe out crime, set things right forever, confirm what the prophet saw, and anoint The Holy of Holies. | TO: 1)throttle rebellion 2) stop sin 3) wipe out crime 4) set things right forever, 5) confirm what the prophet saw, 6) anoint the Holy of Holies. NO WAY !THAT! was all accomplished in 70AD! LOL. Anoint the Holy of Holies is interesting. Will that be in a 5th Temple after the 4th one desecrated by the Anti-Christ is presumably destroyed? Or will the 4th Temple be the one used? |
See Romans 11:26 . . . 1-4 items ARE CLEARLY Millenial reign turf. Rule of Everlasting Righteousness: See Isaiah 59:2-21; Jer 31:31-34. The idea that any of THOSE have been or are achieved BEFORE Christ's millenial reign is utter stooooopidity or insanity or both. Confirm what the prophet saw? Sounds like confirming what Daniel saw, to me. That hasn't occurred and won't until it all happens in the Great Tribulation/Armageddon/Millenial Reign time-sequence, either. I agree with the Full Bible commentary that "God revealed to Daniel that sixty-nine eriods of sevens, i.e., 483 years, would occur between the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the coming of the Messiah, the Anointed One. I agree that Jesus Christ will be anointed as King (cf. 1Sam 9:6; 10:1; Ezek 21:26-27. I don't necessarily agree that v. 24 speaks of anoiniting King Jesus when it mentions anointing the Holy of Holies or The Most Holy PLACE. |
| --25-- | 25Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven[e] will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One[f]—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses,[g] despite the perilous times. | 25 "'Here is what you must understand: From the time the word goes out to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Anointed Leader, there will be seven sevens. The rebuilding will take sixty-two sevens, including building streets and digging a moat. Those will be rough times. | The difference between 49 & 62 = 11. Not sure what to make of that. Seems like there's a gap in time involved. Christ came and was 'cut off.' The sequence picks up at a later time? The Full Bible commentary is a bit different as below. |
|
| --26-- | 26“After this period of sixty-two sets of seven,[h] the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end. | 26 After the sixty-two sevens, the Anointed Leader will be killed—the end of him. The city and Sanctuary will be laid in ruins by the army of the newly arriving leader. The end will come in a rush, like a flood. War will rage right up to the end, desolation the order of the day. | Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed by the Roman army after Christ's death and Resurrection. AFTER THAT 2,000 plus years AFTER that, "The END WILL COME in a rush, like a flood." THAT has NOT happened yet but is increasingly cocked and READY to happen precisely like that. THE END clearly speaks of THE END TIMES--NOT 70 AD! Further, re war and it's miseries--such are slated from the time when Christ was crucified/Resurrected until "THE VERY END!" Until Christ haults all such with HIS Armageddon victory and locking the author of war up for 1,000 years--installing CHRIST'S MILLENIAL REIGN OF PEACE. It seems to me that these verses require some thoughtful study to dig the nuggets out. They are written in such a way that those without hearts truly seeking GOD'S TRUTH, will miss it just as Christ's parables were designed for the Pharisees to miss the nuggets therein. |
I agree that the CHURCH AGE is between the 69th and 70th 7's. |
| --27-- | 27The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven,[i] but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds,[j] he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration,[k] until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.” | 27 "'Then for one seven, he will forge many and strong alliances, but halfway through the seven he will banish worship and prayers. At the place of worship, a desecrating obscenity will be set up and remain until finally the desecrator himself is decisively destroyed.'" | FOR ONE 7 YEAR PERIOD IN THE FUTURE AN EVIL RULER will DECEPTIVELY form a treaty with Israel. He will NOT be understood as the Anti-Christ by Israel at the time. See Daniel 10:36-39: NIV "The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed . . . Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his fathers he will honor with gold and silver . . . He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. . . . He will distribute the land at a price. It's interesting that some fallen angel critters are characterized as demanding gold for unknown reasons. 3.5 years INTO THAT TREATY, HE WILL BREAK IT. AND DECLARE HIMSELF TO BE GOD; TAKE OVER THE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM; AND forbid the worship of The Lord God of Israel. |
The idea that the ruler that lays waste to the Sanctuary would be Christ is absurd to the max. The idea that the ruler who lays waste to Jerusalem and the Santuary right after Christ's death and Resurrection IS THE SAME as the ruler making a treaty for 7 years with Israel and breaking it after 3.5 years is sheer idiocy. I don't know how folks who think that can figure out how to dial a phone. Setting the Anti-Christ's image up "in the Holy Place" would certainly desecrate it and clue the Israeli's in that they bet on the wrong horse big-time. That's consistent with their waking-up, fleeing for their lives as they are slaughtered by the thousands as Scripture indicates . . . and a remnant being protected in Petra etc. It would likely be one of the times that they will "look on Him whom they have pierced." |
| Footnotes: a 9:1 Or the Chaldeans. b 9:2 See Jer 25:11-12; 29:10. c 9:24a Hebrew seventy sevens. d 9:24b Or the Most Holy One. e 9:25a Hebrew Seven sevens plus sixty-two sevens. f 9:25b Or an anointed one; similarly in 9:26. Hebrew reads a messiah. g 9:25c Or and a moat, or and trenches. h 9:26 Hebrew After sixty-two sevens. i 9:27a Hebrew for one seven. j 9:27b Hebrew And on the wing of abominations; the meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain. k 9:27c Hebrew an abomination of desolation. |
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