Posted on 05/24/2011 10:27:46 AM PDT by topcat54
"This scheme has two returns of Jesus at the end of the times: one ... just for his saints and then his final return after the tribulation," Sproul summed up.
Disagreeing with this view, Sproul pointed to the imagery that the Apostle Paul used in his account of the rapture in the NT book of 1 Thessalonians.
"The whole point of the imagery here echoes and reflects something that was commonplace in the contemporary world in which Paul wrote – namely, the pattern and practice of the triumphal return to Rome of the Roman armies," the Reformed theologian stated.
After winning a battle, Roman armies would camp outside the city and send a messenger to announce their arrival. The city would then be prepared with decorations and an arch of triumph. At a prearranged time, a signal would be made whereby trumpets would be blown. That is when the armies would march in triumph into the city.
"But before they began their march at the signal of the trumpet, everyone who was an actual citizen of Rome was invited to come outside the city to join the parade to march back in through the arch of triumph with the victorious army," Sproul said.
With that, the Pittsburgh native concluded, "What I hear Paul saying is that when Jesus comes, he's going to come back to this earth with his whole church; the church will be caught up to meet him as he descends and he will continue to descend along with his whole entourage of believers."
More specifically, citing Paul's teaching, Sproul stated that those who died will rise first and be taken up into the air and those who are alive at the second coming of Christ will also be taken up to meet the Lord as he descends.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
Thanks for letting me know. I apologize for the mistake.
Having taught Hermeneutics along with Systematic Theology, Eschatology as well as the the book of Revelation on the graduate and undergraduate level on numerous occasions since 1994 I take serious offense at the uneducated, ignorant and dubious statements you made within your post. You have impugned my character and qualifications. In the future you would be well advised to keep your mouth shut until you have your facts straight before you speak or post.
As for your post, you failed to sight one instance in which any of the plagues clearly stated within my post have ever taken place in all of recorded human history.
Regarding the book of Revelation, I would strongly recommend you read Robert L. Thomas's exegetical commentary on Revelation. He is no exegetical novice, he has no axe to grind and does a masterful job of simply looking at the text and the original languages. He deals with all of the interpretational positions on the subject and lets the chips fall where they may.
http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-1-7-Commentary-Wycliffe-Exegetical/dp/0802492657/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1306283488&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-8-22-Commentary-Wycliffe-Exegetical/dp/0802492673/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306283488&sr=8-1
One more thing; should you impugn my character or qualifications again I will report you to the FR moderator.
That is what I get for using an Ipod touch, my eyes aren’t what they used to be ;o) Again sorry for the mix-up, it has been remedied.
I understand. No problem. Thanks.
What you are obviously missing is a biblical view of the Church, and the nature of the saints who have fallen asleep vs. those who are alive at His coming.
There saint triumphant and saints militant.
The saints triumphant (in their souls) return with Christ at the Second Coming to be reunited with their bodies that rise from the grave.
The saints militant are changed in the twinkling of an eye and they meet Christ body and soul in the air. All these transformed/resurrected saints accompany Christ to the earth in triumph where He judges the sheep and goats.
All this proves is that those who don't want to believe in the Rapture will say just about anything, no matter how ridiculous to justify their disbelief...
You just need to read the Bible to get the complete picture. There is a ”rapture” in the Bible, just not the false view of the rapture invented by the JN Darby and perpetuated by the dispensationalists. It’s called the Second Coming.
Roman Catholic propaganda is as bad as protestant propaganda.
What they do in practice is more like "literal when convenient." They have no consistent hermeneutics. They can pick and choose when to be "literal" and when to spiritualize.
Nope...When Jesus shows up at the 2nd coming, He's staying...For a thousand years...Nobody's going up at that time...
Another thought to ponder: In Thessalonians it says believers will meet him in the air “and so shall they ever be with the Lord.” In Revelation 19, at His second coming, He will be coming with His saints—where did these folks come from?
One other curiousity is the silence concerning the church after Revelation, chapter 3 (up till then we have read about the things that were and the things which are and “the church at Laodicea, the church at Ephesus, the churcha at Smyrna, etc.) Revelation 4 begins with “come up here and I will show you the things that will be...”
For anyone interested, some helpful articles on Dispensational hermeneutics:
(Excuse the caps which are due to cut and paste.)
LITERAL VS. ALLEGORICAL INTERPRETATION
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-LiteralvsAllegorical.pdf
LITERAL HERMENEUTICS, THEOLOGICAL METHOD,
AND THE ESSENCE OF DISPENSATIONALISM
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Stallard-LITERALHERMENEUTICST.pdf
The Nature and Result of Literal Interpretation
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Radmacher-TheNatureandResultofL.pdf
THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF PROPHECY
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-TheLiteralInterpretationO.pdf
THE LITERAL FULFILLMENT OF BIBLE PROPHECY
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-TheLiteralFulfillmen.pdf
You may live to regret those words. There is so much truth in the Catholic Church as well as this book, but, unfortunately, many people have been brainwashed either through literatur, false sermons or reading coming strip tracts.
There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.
We invite you to investigate the Catholic Church with an open minds and join many famous converts.
Being written in 1881 by a priest hardly compares with apsotate, Camping.
There is one holy, catholic and apostolic Church, but it ain't hq'ed Rome.
Error did not begin with Camping. Rome is an expert in that regard.
I was Roman Catholic by birth. I'm Reformed by the grace if God, never to return to the pigsty of the papacy. .
Thus spake JN Darby. But it ain't in the Bible.
If you were baptized Catholic you are still Catholic. That mark is still on your soul.
We welcome you back at any time.
Why is it that Protestants who convert to Catholicism do not badmouth their former denomination, but Catholics who go to another denomination seem to badmouth the Catholic Church?
What is the answer to that question? I’ve seen it happen innumerable times here on FR.
I would think that everyone would edify other believers. Perhaps I am mistaken and just looking at the good side of these former Catholics.
Do you have any specific examples of error?
He's still got the curse??? Why do you keep repeating that nonsense...Who do you think you are going to convince???
Bible believers believe the Bible...How ludicrous would it be that God gave us a book but we can't figure out what the book says, or we don't believe it...
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