Death Blow to Mormonism – The Book of Abraham is a Fake?

PomoTheo ^ | 2006 | Pomo

[fulltlt]

Have you read “By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus” by Charles M. Larson?

[aruanan]

After closer examination, Smith also declared,

... with W. W. Phelps and Oliver Cowdery as scribes, I commenced the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt, etc. -- a more full account of which will appear in its place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them.[2]

Here's how they'll get out of it: "It was only one of the rolls that was the writings of Abraham. The stuff found in the Metropolitan Museum of Art was missing that particular roll."

Smith's usual MO was to go behind a curtain with the purported documents and "translate" them while others, on the other side of the curtain, would take dictation. He could have had his eyes sealed with putty and his head in a bag and the results would have been the same.

[Elsie]

The fact story is that the papyruses found are not the Book of Abraham.

[nolongerademocrat]

Oh! For a second I thought you were talking about the Sefer Yitzirah.

[Elsie]

[Elsie]

Call for LINKS!

[Elsie]

>Until you do, Christianity is nothing more than a very, very large cult.

Since MORMONism is 'restored' Christianity; you'll have to ask them to PROVE the very same thing!

(Making them a very SMALL cult; right?)

[Elsie]

And it is much more dangerous than Jo’s boys.

But; IT does not claim to be CHRISTIAN; like the LIARS in SLC do.

[Elsie]

If you were willing to know of Christ's ressurection no proof would be necessary.

Acts 1:1-3

In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

[Elsie]

... and gave many convincing proofs ...

Evidently, because stories were spun to 'explain' that He had NOT really 'died'!!

[Chode]

Drink your Ovaltine...

[Notary Sojac]

On the one hand, you've got your conventional, trinitarian Christianity, whose doctrines about "who is Christ" and "what is his relationship to God" were established by human councils, during the fourth through the seventh century.

On the other hand, you've got Mormon Christianity, whose doctrines about "who is Christ" and "what is his relationship to God" were established by human councils, during the nineteenth century.

Now frankly I think that Joe Smith was making it all up, but I don't see any reason why the other is any more valid, or even any more Biblical.

Prior to the councils convened by the early Catholic Church, there were many competing flavors of Christianity, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Paragon Defender]

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their former Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, quote and straw man attack that. Almost without fail you will see examples of this following this post.

Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think. So again, seek the truth. They aren't providing it. Use your God-given brain and discernment.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

[Paragon Defender]

One would think that the evidence provided by the actual fragments of the Book of the Dead used by Joseph Smith would have ended the debate long ago.

---

And it would have. If it were actual proof to the contrary.

Old
Tired
Propaganda

By the anti-Mormons of the world.
Addressed at the links provided, just as always.

Nothing new from the anti-Gang. Just more “loving” attacks on the LDS Church from the obsessed and blind.

[Lurker]

I realize you don’t accept such evidence;

You realize nothing.

[Godzilla]

Lurkers will note that the 'links' are not unified in the least for their explanation of why the papyrus epically fails to document the book of abraham. Some claim that it isn't the papyrus - yet mormon apologist Nibley as well as papyrologist and egyptologists say otherwise. Other morg apologists will say that it simply supplied the 'inspiration' and that of course the words wouldn't be the same - but then that fails to be a translation then. However, NONE of these sites can officially speak for the mormon church - so what does the OFFICIAL site say - nothing, they ignore the issue, as if hoping it would go away.

This debate continues because mormons want their church to be true more than they want the truth.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

From the REAL papyrus of Abraham ...Verses 1-5

http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html

(I/1) [”Osiris, the god’s father], prophet of Amon-Re, King of the Gods, prophet of Min who slaughters his enemies, prophet of Khonsu, the [one who exercises] authority in Thebes,
(I/2) [. . .] . . . Hor, the justified, son of the similarly titled overseer of secrets and purifier of the god, Osorwer, the justified, born by the [housewife and sistrum-player of ]
(I/3) [Amon]-Re, Taikhibit, the justified! May your ba-spirit live among them, and may you be buried on the west [of Thebes].”
(I/4) [”O Anubis(?),51 . . .] justification(?).
(I/5) [May you give to him] a good and splendid burial on the west of Thebes as on the mountains of Ma[nu](?).”
[Osiris shall be towed in]to the great lake of Khonsu,
and likewise [the Osiris Hor, the justified,] born of Taikhibit, the justified,
after his two arms have been [placed] at his heart, while
the Breathing Document, being what
is written on its interior and exterior, shall be wrapped in royal linen and placed (under) his left arm in the midst of his heart. The remainder of his
wrapping shall be made over it. As for the one for whom this book is made,
he thus breathes like the ba-spirit[s] of the gods, forever and ever.

[blueunicorn6]

The leader will come out one morning and say that he had a revelation and explain this away.

[greyfoxx39]

Click on the image for the TRUTH about mormonism.

[RC51]

Here is what I don’t understand that I honestly hope someone could answer for me.

There are probably lots of false doctrine & scandalous contradictions or pseudo-fraud in every Christian denomination. Church doctrine cannot be perfect as long as man is involved. Men are not perfect in nature, not even the apostles. Through prayer and inspiration maybe their deeds, words, and leadership rises to somewhat better than normal but we all know it can’t be perfect.

So what is so special about Mormonism that it deserves to be singled out for derision? Why do Baptists in particular seem to have a war against the Mormons?

We could probably all post some salacious fact about a former Pope. We could point a finger at the strange ways of the Amish or Mennonites. We might be able to dig up some disgruntled ex-born again evangelicals if desired. SO WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT MORMONS? Why single them out for threads like these?