Posted on 02/12/2011 6:20:06 PM PST by topcat54
Joel McDurmon, hosting today's show for Gary DeMar, exposes End-times Dysfunction (E.D.) for what it is. Joel shares with doomsdayers how they can get relief from their paranoia and troubled souls.
The ten kings were Roman emperors. The first seven were Julio-Claudians — Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula, Claudius, Galba, and Otho. These seven Roman kings were replaced by a dynasty of three — The Flavians, who were Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian. The “little horn”, who exalted himself above all other gods was Domitian. He preferred to be addressed as ‘Our Lord and God’. He worshipped ‘a god of fortresses’, which was Minerva, or Athena, for the Greeks.Interesting take. This can be tied to Daniel's prophecy about the kingdom of Iron (Romaoi), correct?
The Seven Churches of Asia were, or would soon be, at the time of John’s writing, centers of the cult of emperor worship. Everyone, except the Jews, were required to sacrifice to the emperor. To one of the churches Jesus said, “I know where you live, where Satan has his throne.” This was one of the emperor temples. The ‘synagogue of Satan’ was a synagogue that had banished believers in Jesus from their midst, and was working with Roman authorities to identify these people. Christians were tempted to return to Judaism to escape persecution by the authorities. This was the backdrop of the Epistle to the Hebrews. The message of Jesus, given to the churches by John in Revelation had immediate relevance to the church(es). Eventually, emperor worship became universal throughout the Roman Empire, under Diocletian, around A.D. 300. During his reign was the most systematic and terrible persecution of The Church, called ‘The Great Persecution’. (Kind of sounds like The Great Tribulation, huh?)Fascinating -- what do the Eminem guys (rap-ture ;-P) say to that?
| The Second Coming and The Rapture are not two separate events. The Church, The Olive Tree, The Bride, however you designate it, is not separated between Jew and Gentile. In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. Christ will not return until the man of sin is revealed. That would be the Antichrist, whose number is 666, (or 616), in some manuscripts. Nrw Qsr (Nero Caesar) is 616 in Hebrew Gematria. Nrwn Qsr is 666. The ten kings were Roman emperors. The first seven were Julio-Claudians — Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula, Claudius, Galba, and Otho. These seven Roman kings were replaced by a dynasty of three — The Flavians, who were Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian. The “little horn”, who exalted himself above all other gods was Domitian. He preferred to be addressed as ‘Our Lord and God’. He worshipped ‘a god of fortresses’, which was Minerva, or Athena, for the Greeks.
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The Seven Churches of Asia were, or would soon be, at the time of John’s writing, centers of the cult of emperor worship. Everyone, except the Jews, were required to sacrifice to the emperor. |
A nice, sobre, solemn statement and does he get any refutation as a response? no. He gets only hot-air
absolutely no possible way, blah, blah, blah. No way, blah, blah, True History, blah, blah... , blah, blah, it truly boggles my mind that people... , blah, blah, blah
None of the REPLACEMENTARIANS have ever explained how DAMASCUS was destroyed in AD 70 . . . and never lived in again . .Evidently their knowledge of history is as sketchy as their knowledge of the bible.
It is encouraging that you are evidently not totally awash in REPLACEMENTARIAN/PRETERIST ABSURDITIES.
| "But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]). "As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same" Against heresies 1:10:2 "It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]). "Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true. To these things all the Asiatic churches testify, as do also those men who have succeeded Polycarp down to the present time" (Against Heresies 3:3:4 "Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth, so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. . . . For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient churches with which the apostles held constant conversation, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question?" (Against Heresies 3:4:1) "[I]t is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church—those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the infallible charism of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting thus for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the truth" "The true knowledge is the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient organization of the Church throughout the whole world, and the manifestation of the body of Christ according to the succession of bishops, by which succession the bishops have handed down the Church which is found everywhere AGainst Heresies 4:33:8 |
| And Irenaeus of course said "If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" Against Heresies 4:33:32 "He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?" Against Heresies 5:2 |
Technically she didn’t call you a child of hell, just “someone blatantly denies the Bible, that is not a Christian”
| The only small problem with this is that the Dead Sea Scrolls have nothing in them that doesn't translate to the same thing that is already in the OT. Just like someone claimed that the Dead Sea Scrolls mention the piercing of the Messiah and therefore Christ was not the Messiah, this is someone (Jack Van Impe in ’05 it seems) trying to add credence to their belief in the Rapture. I think that's just before the scrolls were finally released, so I give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe they were expecting to find the word or had heard a rumor that it was in there. http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article1.htm http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2009/12/importance-of-dead-sea-scrolls.html And I’m positive you have been to innumerable others that make no mention of the verse you refer to because it isn’t there. Were there any merit at all to this it would be all over all the usual sites folks refer others to in order to allow them to read the whole Rapture doctrine. They’re just not all hyping and using as proof anything from the Dead Sea Scrolls. This is taking something that is a blessing because it proves to doubters that the Old Testament and the prophesies about Christ are accurate, and you drag it into the most contentious forum you can find and taint it with an argument sure to cause those who might be seeking Christ to turn away and seek information where there isn’t constant argument. Now, that’s a real soul winners’ attitude. Trash anything and everything to prove your point about the Rapture when it makes no difference whatsoever to finding Christ if you’re lost. Ya’ll argue this til the Rapture you’re waiting on arrives, or more likely, you find out the hard way how this drives more people away from Christ than it leads to Him. Making up or spreading made up references is even worse than the tearing from context I’ve seen in these mud wrestling matches. May God have mercy on you for driving people away from His Son because you prefer playing games to witnessing. It is much, much, easiar. I'll grant you that. |
A sane, sensible post, and what answer do you get?
What a stinking pile of assumptions. arguing from silence.
Very lucid....
Question: Do you believe the Bible teaches a pre-tribulation rapture? Will the believers in Christ be taken out of this world while the unbelievers are "left behind" to endure the final tribulations before the last day of this world? And will those unbelievers "left behind" have a last chance to repent?
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Answer:
The answer is "No" to all questions...
I think that it is wrong to hold (with the Premillennialists) that, from chapter 4:1 on, Revelation is all future.And more
So what is wrong with the perspective of these novels (the left behind) and other books which promote this theory in a fictional or nonfictional fashion? After all, such books accurately represent the popular theory of the Rapture as taught in the majority of evangelical, Bible-believing churches in the United States today. But do they truly represent the teachings of Scripture?
The Orthodox Presbyterian Church has always answered that question in the negative. In fact, this was one of the key issues in the division that produced the Bible Presbyterian Church early in the history of our denomination.What, then, does the Bible teach? At the time of Christ's ascension, the disciples were told that "this same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11). His ascension was visible and physical; his second coming will likewise be visible and physical.
Dispensationalists seek to explain this passage by saying that the Second Coming is divided into two parts, the coming of Christ for his saints (the secret Rapture) and the coming of Christ with his saints (the revelation), and that it is only at his revelation that he will appear visibly. But this in reality postulates a second and a third coming.
Titus 2:13 is often used to support this view, but it is not speaking of two comings of Christ, but of one event, "the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ." This is one event because one article ("the") covers the two nouns ("hope" and "appearing") joined by "and" (and so it is in the original Greek).
There is simply no hint of a secret Rapture in Scripture. ...
Also going against the theory of a secret Rapture is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, which teaches that two events will occur prior to the coming of Christ: (1) "the falling away" (or "the rebellion" [niv], or, literally, "the apostasy") and (2) the revelation of "the man of sin" (vs. 3), who is generally identified with "the Antichrist" (1 John 2:18). Now whether we understand the Antichrist as nothing more than the spirit of Antichrist (1 John 4:3; cf. 2:22 and 2 John 7), or as a particular individual, one thing is clear: this revelation of the Antichrist will occur prior to Christ's coming, not afterwards.
“I do think it’s far easier to make a convincing case for God in one’s life WHEN a parent’s theology lived out in front of children includes routine miracles in daily life as is common in authenticly Christian Pentecostal homes.”
Absolutely, and AMEN!!
p.s. I would like to be added to your end time ping list spoken of in post #67, please!
Like these?...
"the idiots who deny their children hope in Christ for this life"
"then worry about your fetish for the Antichrist"
"technicolor wild-eyed ravings from certifiable lunatics"
"driving people away from His Son because you prefer playing games to witnessing"
"easily suckered in to whatever dung comes their way from the prophecy pimps"
"We can now officially brand you "Heretic"
"the nuts who can’t debate"
"along with a pill for dyslexia and schizophrenia."
"Or do they keep relying on the "burning in the b***m" (too much hot chilli?) to argue?"
"Ah, Judge -- your opponents have no answer..."
"Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
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