Pope includes Hindu verses in prayers on Good Friday

merinews ^ | Apr 14, 2009

[Gamecock]

HINDUS HAVE applauded Pope Benedict for including verse from ancient Hindu scripture Upanishads in the Good Friday Meditations and Prayers led by him at Roman Colosseum.

Acclaimed Hindu statesman Rajan Zed, in a statement in Nevada (USA) today, said that it was a remarkable gesture from Pope and invited him to study more ancient Hindu scriptures, which were very rich in philosophical thought. He or other Hindu scholars would gladly provide the help and resources in this regard, if asked, Zed added.

Zed, who is president of Universal Society of Hinduism, also commended His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI for inclusion of a verse from India’s Nobel Laureate Rabindranath Tagore’s Gitanjali and reference to peace icon Mahatma Gandhi in these prayers.

This year’s 'Way of the Cross at the Colesseum' Meditations and Prayers on Good Friday, led by Pope, included well-known verse from Brahadaranyakopanishad (“Lead me from the unreal to the real, from darkness to light, from death to immortality”), line from Tagore’s Gitanjali (“Give me the strength to make my love fruitful in service”) and reference to Mahatma Gandhi.

Rajan Zed stressed that all religions should work together for a just and peaceful world. Dialogue would bring us mutual enrichment, he added.

Pope Benedict heads the Roman Catholic Church, which is the largest of the Christian denominations. Hinduism, oldest and third largest religion of the world, has about one billion adherents and moksha (liberation) is its ultimate goal.

[presently no screen name]

The more you look and read and study and see the worse it gets...

Well said and I totally agree. Deception begets deception. The RCC is the counterfeit church.

[Smokin' Joe]

Don't forget the Jews.

No slight intended!

[Claud]

Oh my gosh, that’s an outrage!!!! Oh wait. No it isn’t.

Thanks Pyro for providing the context.

This thread is a classic example of the media stoking the FR idiot contingent who prattle on and on about not believing the press but then fall for it hook line and sinker.

Pure stupidity.

[John Leland 1789]

The RCC Vacuum Cleaner, sucking in all the world’s religions.

“Christohinduislamabuddhireformi’orthodaoib’ha’ivoodimysticism” gotz to all be under one man standing in the Hebrew temple one day.

Let’s hear a rapper do something with that one!

[kearnyirish2]

The worst betrayal is to those Christians (Catholic or otherwise) who’ve suffered barbarity & martyrdom at the hands of Muslims & Hindu Nationalists for their faith. Sadly, canonization won’t even be discussed as it would insult our “brethren” (and de-ligitimize our popes).

[conservativegramma]

That’s funny coming from a Catholic to criticize you for *cutting and pasting*.

Isn't it though? Especially when the *cutting and pasting* is Bible passages.

Sheez - I didn't even use all of the Catholic magisterium's screeds, sacraments, catechisms, traditions or church fathers *cuttings and pastings* they're all so fond of. Guess its just the Bible itself they react to, sort of like a vampire reacts to the cross I guess.

[conservativegramma]

One day we will welcome you into the faith.

Well thanks, lol, but sheez that's what I've been praying about FOR YOU! Psst: And I don't have to wait until Sunday comes! I'm doing it now!!

[Hacksaw]

This thread is a classic example of the media stoking the FR idiot contingent who prattle on and on about not believing the press but then fall for it hook line and sinker.

Word. Note as well that the misrepresentation doesn't matter in the slightest to the harpies.

[Cronos]

Maybe the problem is that so many outside The Church reject Christ's words in John 6:

26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill.
27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” 29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[b] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[c] and life.
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life
69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

[Cronos]

Christ says so in His very own words about the Eucharist, and yet many outside The Church reject Christ's words.

These words are only reinforced in 1 Cor. 10:16-17, where Paul writes: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread."

Even Martin luther weighed in in favor of the True Presence in the Eucharist when he said:

Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture?

Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body?

or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so?

It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men.

[Cronos]

Actually, you've never read this then Pope appeals for end to attacks against Indian Christians

[Cronos]

Truth doesn't matter to the harpies, or the initial poster of an article from 2009. All that matters is for the Presbyterians to spread their hatred around.

And guess what? The Presbyterians HATE the Pentecostals and others equally as much as they hate Catholics

Here's what they say

Gamecock:
"This goes to what the Reformers taught; that is the "enthusiasts" or what we call today Pentecostals, are really no different from the Roman Catholics

So they hate all non-followers of Calvin

This is what Calvinism teaches:

"Calvinism is the Gospel and to teach Calvinism is in fact to preach the Gospel."
Arthur C. Custance, The Sovereignty of Grace, 1979.

"Calvinism is evangelicalism in its purest and only stable expression."
B.B. Warfield, Calvin and Augustine, ed. Samuel G. Craig, 1956.

"We believe with the great Baptist preacher, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, that Calvinism is just another name for Christianity."
John H. Gerstner, Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism, 1991.

[Hodar]

Unless I misunderstood your first post, you also called Jesus a “prophet.”

You misunderstood my first quote. Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God. Jesus is the Christ (He wasn't born to Mr. and Mrs. Christ). Christ is a title, from the Greek, meaning 'annointed one', or 'messiah'.

Technically speaking, he should be called "Jesus the Christ".

Before I forget - let's be clear.... Mohammed was NOT a prophet of God. I submit, based soley upon his actions in history as well as the 'Fruit' his tree has born - that he was and is a Disciple of Satan.

Now, a 'prophet' is a holy man who talks to God and teaches. Technically, this would include Adam, Moses, Abraham, a host of others - and Jesus, too. Unless you submit that Moses, Abraham, Noah, David and the others were not prophets.

Now, there are Greater Prophets and Lesser Prophets. God addresses the 'Greater Prophets' directly. Meaning, he walks with them, he talks with them as one man to another. Greater Prophets would be Adam, Abraham, Jesus and a host of others. The Lesser Prophets would be those who taught by the Holy Ghost - but never claimed to directly speak to God. Such Lesser Prophets would be the 12 Disciples, as an example. Jesus was the Greatest of all - face it, how to you top "Son of God"?

[Cronos]

What exactly is this "homework" you have done, if I might ask? What exactly do you know of Hinduism in the first place?

Do you realise that it is a meta-religion rather than a religion in the sense that there is no central tenet, not even Sanatana Dharma? Do you realise the difference between Indian culture and Hinduism?

Let me elucidate -- do you have a Christmas tree? Isn't that a Germanic/Nordic cultural more? Do you sit during the services? Why not stand throughout like the Orthodox do?

[metmom]

The problem is that many in the Roman Catholic church reject Jesus’s words here.

http://bible.cc/john/6-63.htm

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

And I don’t know what the heck version of Scripture you’re using because at the link provided, not one says what you posted.... “they are full of the Spirit[c] and life. “

Where’d you get that from? Is that YOPIOS?

[Cronos]

Well, firstly, the Catholic Church consistently states that Jesus Christ IS God. Do not believe those outside who may tell you otherwise, metmom.

[Cronos]

And, if you read in the Bible, starting from John 6:30, we read

30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

They asked Him for a sign, saying that Moses gave them manna in the desert. If Jesus (according to them) was aspiring to the level of Moses, He should do something as big as that.

and Jesus says something strange to them -- He says Moses didn't give you bread, My father did, and bread that comes down from heaven. Then He says that HE is the bread of life, HE is the manna -- and manna was to be eaten.

The Jews made the same mistake you did, which is to think he was speaking as a metaphor.

Yet Jesus REPEATED the same thing, saying

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died.
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

And now the crowd is openly rebellious saying “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
And

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.

Note -- Jesus doesn't clear up the Metaphor, like he did in Matt. 16:5–12

5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread.
6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?
9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

So, Jesus DOES indicate when it is a metaphor and when it isn't.
In this case, look at the reaction of his DISCIPLES, people who had heard his teachings for so long and followed him

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”...

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

You cannot say that this was just bread and wine of that this is a metphor for coming and having faith in the Lord or some kind of metphor for believing in Christ because of the reaction of the Jews and the very language -- to eat one's flesh and drink the blood means to do violence on some one. You see it even in Hindi where a threat is "Mein tera Khoon pie jaongaa" or "I will drink your blood" -- and this is among vegetarians! To drink a persons blood means a serious threat of injury.So, if you believe that this was just a metphor, you mean to say that Christ is rewarding people for crucifying Him?!! That's nonsensical, sorry.

You cannot even say it was a metaphor by incorreclty comparing it to John 10:9 (I am the gate/doorway) or John 15:1 (I am the true vine) is because this is not referenced in the entire verse in the same way as John 6 which shows the entire incident from start to finish of Jesus saying His body is to be eaten, repeating it and seeing his disciples go and not correcting them (as he did in Matthew 16). Even in the literal sense -- Christ says he is the gateway to heaven and the vine such that we get nourishment with him as the connecting path. But John 6 is much much more than mere symbolism as He categorically states that "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).

Even at the end of John 6, Jesus rebukes those who think of what He has said as a metaphor by emphasising that

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life.
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

Jesus repeats the rebuke against just thinking in terms of human logic (Calvin's main problem) by saying

John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

Just using human logic as Calvinist thought does, without God's blessings behind it fails in grace.John 6:63 does not refer to Jesus's statement of his own flesh, if you read in context but refers to using human logic instead of dwelling on God's words.

And, all of this is confirmed in Paul's writings to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 10:16)

6 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

and also 1 Cor 11:27-29

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

How clear can Paul get? "The bread IS a participation in the body of Christ" and "who eats the bread... will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord" This is not just mere bread and wine anymore. This is the body and blood of Christ.

[rollo tomasi]

To the crowd:

Their god is:



Some of their prophets:



(Despite an alleged conversion, his works still cause all sorts of spiritual havoc)

With their church attempting to form and establish a blasphemous:



No thanks to mixing other faiths in attempt to appease, all that does is reinforce their falsehoods and weaken Christianity.

Jesus told his Apostles to brush the dust off your sandals and walk away, hmm, why? Can't the religions just get along? Paul on his quest, ridiculed "the gods" as well as the individuals who worshiped them because the "Truth" establishes all the ground rules (With good reason).

[caww]

what do I know of Hinduism? Obviously plenty enough to form an opinion that it is not Christian and a pagan religion Cronos.....and you also know this.

I know that Kundalini is dangerous....I know that becoming your own God and reincarnation are diametrically opposed to Christianity.... I know that the New Age Spirituality, which is damaging the hearts and minds of people is rooted in Hinduism. I know that the The Gurus have an agenda here in our Country to infilitrate our churches and educational systems via Yoga and other practices, which the Catholic leadership is supporting.

Now the list can go on and on Cronos....you can defend their practices all you want but the fact are Hinduism leads people away from Christ Jesus...and you know this as well.

[onedoug]

—from ¨The Pentateuch and Haftorahs¨, Dr JH Hertz, CH, Late Chief Rabbi Of The British Empire... 

¨God had suffered the heathens to worship the sun, moon and stars as a stepping stone to a higher stage of religious belief. That worship of the heathen nations thus forms part of God´s guidance for humanity.

But as for the Israelites, God had given them first hand knowledge of Him through the medium of Revelation. It is for this reason that idolatry was for them an unpardonable offence; and everything that might seduce them from that Divine Revelation was to be ruthlessly destroyed.

Hence the amazing tolerance shown by Judaism of all ages towards the followers of other cults, so long as these were not steeped in immorality and crime. Thus the prophet Malachi declares even the sacrificial offering of heathens to be a glorification of God (Mal 1:11).

Equally striking is the attitude of the Rabbis toward the heathen world. War had been declared against the Canaanites not because of matters of dogma or ritual, but because of the savage cruelty and foul licentiousness of their lives and cult.

But the Rabbis never regarded the heathens of their own day as on the same moral level with the Canaanites. Their contemporary heathens in the Roman and Persian Empires obeyed the laws of conduct which the Rabbis deemed vital to the existence of human society, the so-called ´seven commandments given to the children of Noah´. They wisely held that in their religious life these heathens merely followed the traditional worship which they had inherited from their fathers before them, and they could not therefore be held responsible for failure to reach a true notion of the Unity of God. Such followers of other faiths – they taught – were judged by God purely by their moral life. ´The righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come,´ and are heirs of immortality, alongside the righteous in Israel.

A later midrash proclaimed: ´I call heaven and earth to witness that, whether it be Jew or heathen, man or woman, freeman or bondman – only according to their acts does the Divine spirit rest upon them. And in the darkest days of the Middle Ages, Solomon ibn Gabirol, the great philosopher and Synagogue hymn writer, sang
´Thou art the Lord,
And all beings are thy servants, Thy domain;
And through those who serve idols vain
Thine honor is not detracted from,
For they all aim to Thee to come.´
This is probably the earliest enunciation of religious tolerance in Western Europe.¨