Posted on 02/05/2011 11:07:42 AM PST by Gamecock
In the book of Judges we read about another generation which arose, which knew neither the Lord nor what He had done (Judges 2:10). Today, it appears that a generation has arisen, which like Israel under the Judges, knows little of either the Lord nor of what He did during the time of the Protestant exodus and the struggles in the wilderness, which followed in the 16th and 17th century. Sometimes this is from a cowardly dislike of controversy and confrontation. But few people seem to understand either the evils from which the Reformation delivered us or the blessings which the Reformation won for us.
The Reformation delivered the Church from gross ignorance and spiritual darkness The church, before the Reformation, was a church without the Bible. And a church without a Bible is as useless as a lighthouse without light, a candlestick without a candle, or a motor vehicle without an engine. The priests and people knew scarcely anything about God’s Word or the way of salvation in Christ.
Bishop J.C. Ryle described the situation: “The immense majority of the clergy did little more than say masses and offer up pretended sacrifices, repeat Latin prayers and chant Latin hymns (which of course most of the people could not understand), hear confessions, grant absolutions, give extreme unction, and take money to get dead people out of purgatory.”
Bishop Latimer observed: “When the devil gets influence in a church, up go candles and down goes preaching.”
Quarterly sermons (that is, once every three months) were prescribed to the clergy, but not insisted upon. Latimer noted that while the mass was never left unsaid for a single Sunday, sermons might be omitted for 20 Sundays in succession. Indeed, to preach much was to incur the suspicion of being a heretic.
Bishop Hooper, who along with Bishop Latimer was burned alive at the stake under Queen Mary, did a survey in 1551 and found that out of 311 clergy in his Diocese, 168 were unable to repeat the Ten Commandments, 31 of those 168 could not even say in which part of the Scripture the Ten Commandments were to be found, 40 could not tell where the Lord’s Prayer was written, and 31 of the 40 did not even know who the author of the Lord’s Prayer was!
Bishop Ryle summarized the situation: “Before the Reformation was a religion without knowledge, without faith and without lively hope – a religion without justification, regeneration and sanctification – a religion without any clear views of Christ and the Holy Ghost. Except in rare instances, it was little better than an organized system of Mary worship, saint worship, image worship, relic worship, pilgrimages, alms giving, formalism, ceremonialism, processions, penances, absolutions, masses and blind obedience to the priests. It was a huge higgledy-piggledy of ignorance and idolatry, and serving an unknown God by deputy. The only practical result was that the priests took the people’s money and undertook to secure their salvation. And the people flattered themselves that the more they gave to the priests, the more sure they were to go to Heaven!”
The Reformation delivered the church from childish superstitions The Roman Catholic church, before the Reformation, taught its members to seek spiritual benefit from so-called relics of dead saints and to treat them with divine honor. Calvin’s “Inventory of Relics” and Hobart Seymour’s “Pilgrimage to Rome” catalog some of the ludicrous swindles which were perpetrated by the church of Rome. This included pieces of wood “of the true cross” enough to load a large ship, thorns professing to be part of the Saviour’s crown of thorns, enough to make a huge faggot, at least 14 nails said to have been used at the Crucifixion, four spearheads – each purporting to be the one which pierced our Lord’s side, at least three seamless coats of Christ, for which the soldiers cast lots, Saint James’s hand, bones of Mary Magdalene, toenails from Saint Edmund, some bread, purported to have been used by Christ at the Last Supper, a girdle of the Virgin Mary and milk from the Virgin Mary! The Royal Commissioners of Henry VIII examined a vial at the Abbey in Gloucestershire, which was said to contain the blood of Christ! The Commissioners found that it contained the blood of a duck.
There were literally thousands of profane and vile inventions, fabrications and deceptions, which Roman priests imposed on the people before the Reformation. They must have known that they were deceiving the people, yet they persisted in presenting these lies and requiring that the ignorant laity believe them. Sometimes the priests induced dying sinners to give vast tracts of lands to abbeys and monasteries, in order to atone for their bad lives. In one way or another, they were continually separating sinners from their money and accumulating property and wealth in the hands of the Roman church.
The power of the priests was practically despotic and was used for every purpose except the advancement of the Christian faith. It seemed that their primary object was power. To them confession had to be made. Without their absolution and extreme unction no professing Christian could be saved. Without their masses no soul could be redeemed from purgatory. In short, they were, to all intents and purposes, the mediators between Christ and man. To please and honor the Roman church was a devout Christian’s first duty. To injure them was the greatest of sins. One of the indulgences issued in 1498, with the authority of the Pope, claimed: “To absolve people from usury, theft, manslaughter, fornication and all crime whatsoever, except smiting the clergy and conspiring against the Pope!”
A starving man in a famine may be reduced to eating rats and rubbish, rather than die of hunger. Similarly, a conscience-stricken soul, deprived of God’s Word, should not be judged too harshly by us, if they struggled to find comfort in the most debasing superstition. However, we must never forget that it was from such superstitions which the Reformation delivered us.
The Reformation delivered the church from blatant immorality Before the Reformation, the lives of the clergy were simply scandalous. There were brothels in the Vatican. The Popes, Cardinals and Bishops openly consorted with prostitutes and engaged in the most debauched orgies. The local priests became notorious for gluttony, drunkenness and gambling. As Bishop Ryle pointed out: “To expect the huge roots of ignorance and superstition, which filled our land, to bear any but corrupt fruit, would be unreasonable and absurd.”
Contemporary art depicted friars as foxes preaching with the neck of a stolen goose peeping out of the hood behind; as wolves giving absolution, with the sheep partly concealed under their cloaks; or as apes sitting on a sick man’s bed with a crucifix in one hand and with the other hand in the suffering person’s pocket! Such public contempt in art reflects the scorn with which the clergy were held at the time.
Bishop Ryle pointed out: “But the blackest spot on the character of our pre-Reformation clergy in England is one of which it is painful to speak … their horrible contempt of the 7th Commandment … the consequences of shutting up herds of men and women in the prime of life, in monasteries and nunneries, were such that I will not defile my paper by dwelling upon them … if ever there was a plausible theory weighed in the balance and found utterly wanting, it is the favorite theory that celibacy and monasticism promote holiness … monasteries and nunneries were frequently sinks of iniquity.”
The report of the Royal Commissioners, under Henry VIII, declared: “That manifest sin, vicious, carnal and abominable living, is daily used and committed in abbeys, priories, and other religious houses of monks, cannons and nuns, and that albeit many continual visitations have been had, by the space of 200 years or more, for an honest and charitable reformation of such unthrifty, carnal and abominable living, yet that nevertheless, little or none amendment was hitherto had, but that their vicious living shamefully increased and augmented.”
It was observed that: “There is no surer recipe for promoting immorality than fullness of bread and abundance of idleness.” (Ezekiel 16:49) It is from such superstition, corruption, immorality, ignorance and idolatry that the Reformation freed the church.
The Reformation gave the church back the Bible In 1519, six men and a woman were burned at Coventry for teaching their children the Ten Commandments, the Lord’s Prayer and the Apostle’s Creed in English. Nothing seems to have alarmed and enraged the Roman priesthood as much as the spread of Bibles in the local language. It was for the crime of translating the Bible into English that the Reformer, William Tyndale, was burned at the stake. Of all the aspects which combined to make up the Reformation, no other aspect received such bitter opposition as the translation and circulation of the Scriptures. The translation of the Bible struck a blow at the root of the whole Roman Catholic system. The Bible, as the only rule of faith and conduct, freely available in the local languages, was a threat to all the superstitions and abuses of the medieval Roman popery. With the Bible in every parish church, every thoughtful man soon saw that the religion of the priests had no basis in Holy Scripture.
The Reformation opened the road to the throne of Grace The way of salvation had become blocked up and made impassible by heaps of superstitious rubble. “He who desired to obtain forgiveness had to seek it through a jungle of priests, saints, Mary worship, masses, penances, confession, absolution and the like, so that there might as well have been no throne of Grace at all.” J.C. Ryle
The Reformers hacked their way through this huge jungle of papal obstruction and cleared the way for every heavy-laden sinner to go straight to the Lord Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
The Reformation restored Biblical simplicity to worship Before the Reformation, the laity were only present at church services as passive, ignorant spectators. The elaborate, theatrical presentations of the sacraments were a solemn farce because the ceremonies and prayers were in Latin. The laity could bring their bodies to the services, but their minds, understanding, reason and spirit could take no part at all. For this reason, the 24th Article of the Church of England declared: “It is a thing totally repugnant to the Word of God and the custom of the primitive church to have public prayer in the church or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people.”
The Reformation gave a Biblical understanding of the office of a minister Before the Reformation, the concept of the Christian ministry was sacerdotal. That is – it was understood that every clergyman was a sacrificing priest. The clergy were understood to hold the keys of Heaven and to be practically the mediators between God and man.
The Reformers brought the office of the clergy down to its Scriptural level. They stripped it entirely of any sacerdotal character. They cast out the words “sacrifice” and “altar”. They taught that the clergy were pastors, ambassadors, messengers, witnesses, evangelists, teachers and ministers of the Word and sacraments. The Reformers taught that the chief business of every Christian minister is to preach the Word and to be diligent in prayer and the reading of the Scriptures. The Reformers taught the immense superiority of the pulpit to the confessional. For this reason, where the altar used to be, the Lord’s table was placed with an open Bible, or a pulpit, showing the centrality of God’s Word in the worship of Protestant churches.
The Reformation restored a Biblical understanding of holiness Before the Reformation, it was believed that a monastic life and vows of celibacy were the only ways to escape sin and to attain sanctification. Multitudes of men and women poured into the monasteries and convents under the vain idea that this would please God and ensure their eternal salvation.
The Reformers struck at the root of this fallacy by establishing the great Scriptural principle that true religion was not to be found in retiring into convents and monasteries and fleeing from the difficulties of daily life, but in manfully facing up to our difficulties and doing our duty diligently - in every position to which God calls us. It is not by running away from the world, that we fulfill God’s call, but by courageously resisting the devil, the flesh and the world and overcoming them in daily life. That is how true holiness is to be exhibited. For this reason, the Reformers dissolved the monasteries and convents in their areas and freed the inmates to be reintegrated into normal life.
The Reformers also ordered that the Ten Commandments be set up in every parish church and taught to every child, and that our duty towards God and our neighbor be set forth in the Catechism. They insisted that you cannot become saints by shirking your duties in society.
A Heritage of Faith and Freedom We must continually thank God for the Reformation. It lit the flames of knowledge and freedom which we must ensure are never allowed to be extinguished or to grow dim. We need to continually remember that the Reformation was won for us by the blood of many tens of thousands of martyrs. It was not only by their preaching and praying, and writing and legislation, but by their sacrifices that our religious liberty, freedom of conscience and Christian heritage was won.
The Reformation found church members steeped in ignorance and left them in possession of knowledge. It found them without Bibles and left them with the Bible in every parish. It found them in darkness and left them in light. It found them bound in fear and left them enjoying the liberty and peace which only Christ can give. It found them strangers to the blood of Christ’s atonement, to faith, grace and holiness and left them with the key of all those blessings in their hands. It found them blind and left them with spiritual eyes to see. It found them slaves to superstition and set them free to serve Christ.
As Bishop Ryle declared: “Are we to return to a church which boasts that she is infallible and never changes – to a church which has never repented her pre-Reformation superstitions and abominations – to a church which has never confessed and abjured her countless corruptions? Are we to go back to gross ignorance of true religion? Shame on us, I say, if we entertain the idea for a moment! Let the Israelite return to Egypt, if he will. Let the prodigal go back to his husks among the swine. Let the dog return to his vomit. But let no Englishman with brains in his head, ever listen to the idea of exchanging Protestantism for Popery, or returning to the bondage of the church of Rome. No, indeed! … God forbid! The man who counsels such base apostasy and suicidal folly, must be judicially blind. The iron collar has been broken; let us not put it on again. The prison has been thrown open; let us not resume the yoke and return to our chains … Let us not go back to ignorance, superstition, priestcraft and immorality.”
If you have a Bible in your own language, and enjoy to read and study God’s Word, never forget that you owe that Bible to the Reformation. Brave men and women died that you could have the freedom to delight in God’s Word.
If you know the joy of sins forgiven and new life in Christ, if you are walking by faith and enjoying peace with God, never forget that you owe this priceless privilege to the Reformation.
If you enjoy Church services, Scripture choruses, Hymns, prayers and sermons in your own language, remember that for this you are also indebted to the Reformation.
If you appreciate the Biblical and practical sermons of your pastor, and his counsel, never forget that for this you are indebted to the Reformation. The Reformation is the source of many blessings. We need to ask if we are on the side of the Reformers, or of those who burned them and the Bible. “… Contend earnestly for the Faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.” Jude 3
NOPE.
NO SALE.
I’ve behaved quite charitably repeatedly toward a number of RC’s on FR.
EVERY BLESSED TIME,
The snarky ones show up and start spewing virulent hostility, hate, condescension, arrogance, spiteful vengeful bitterness etc. etc. etc.
from the beginning of my first days on FR.
I have periodically again and again tried to cultivate civil, polite, mutually respectful exchanges.
EVERY TIME some member of variouis RC Rabid Cliques on FR would quickly shred all such hope with their arrogant and personally assaultive postings.
The only possible conclusion I’m left with after 10+ years of such is that it is
INSTITUTIONALIZED MENTALITIES THAT WE ARE RELENTLESSLY CONFRONTED WITH.
The attitudes are part and parcel of the heretical, idolatrous, blasphemous, ARROGANT INSTITUTIONALIZED HORRIFIC HOGWASH so overtly spewed from every Vatican tower and output.
I rarely find a shred of
—honesty
—objectivity
—insight
—candor
—integrity
—consistency
—solid Biblical understanding
—historical accuracy
—logical thought processes
—. . .
. . .
from even a single RC except for 3-4 glaring and usually silent exceptions.
If a new such rare RC comes along—it’s wonderful.
However, they usually also quickly abandon such dialogues because they are typically as disgusted with the Rabid Clique type RC’s as the Proddys are.
So, y’all have only y’all to thank for the current state of affairs.
I think MOST of us Proddys have reluctantly accepted the reality and decided to use the ignorantly arrogant Rabid Clique types as foils to write to the silent lurkers.
The RC’s aren’t the least bit interested in mutually respectful dialogue so we have no need to pretend about it either.
Case in point, they have refused to respond about the horrific statistics honorably at all.
Instead, they just rant and rave and play dishonorable plagiaristic games of great haughty hostility and shameful assaultiveness—deflecting and sabotaging any hope of any civil dialogue about such things.
Your nice sounding appeal just has absolutely no congruence with the reality from the RC camp hereon lo these many years—none whatsoever.
Maybe some of us Proddys are reluctant and slow learners to have to come to terms with that reality. However, once we have, we no longer have to be successfully teased with such seductive deviousness as we often see RC types play—and are playing still.
We can go on posting hard facts about the Vatican system and all it’s inconsistencies, horrifically INSTITUTIONALIZED, APPLAUDED AND EMBELLISHED idolatries and blasphemies . . . knowing that we’ll get the same hollow DENIALS, rants and personal assaults as usual and possibly more shrill than usual, on occasion.
Doesn’t matter greatly. THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH whether Biblical, theological or historical.
NON-DAFFYNITIONARY words carry conventional meanings in the real world regardless of the wails and whines of the RC’s !!!DEMANDING!!! !!!!CONTROL!!!! of the vocabulary
of the Religion Forum; of the RM, of JimRob, of the world.
Sooooooooo, dream on. . . just be sure to place the blame for lack of civil discourse where it solidly belongs—on the shoulders of FR’s ever present ever relentless Rabid Clique types.
IF THEY CAN’T CONFORM ALL PRODDYS AND THE WHOLE RELIGION FORUM TO THEIR SENSIBILITIES AND VATICAN !!!CONTROL!!! STANDARDS, expectations, comfort zones—then they will chronically pull out the stops and blame Proddys in every underhanded irrational way imaginable.
They are in no possible nor convincing way interested in true, mutually respectful dialogue. NOPE. NO HOW, NEVER.
Have repeatedly tried to cultivate it only to EVERY TIME have just such RC’s sabotage it and shred it to powder.
No more. Been there and done that repeatedly with many scars to show for it.
Even the pretentiously old timer lofty scholarly grandfatherly types also typically have descended in one or more ways, sooner or later to the same nastiness.
No thanks.
Y’all may not be able to tell the difference between educational, exhortive satire, mocking and ridicule, and y’all’s chronic mean-spirited virulent bitter vengeful hostility and nastiness—BUT GOD CAN.
And so can the lurkers.
Proddys really don’t tend toward personal assaults. Rabid Clique types chronically go for the jugular and the heart in the most vicious, underhanded, unwarranted, dishonest and unfitting ways.
AND THEN THEY HAVE THE BRAZEN IRRATIONALITY TO EXPECT PRODDY RESPECT FOR ANYTHING THEY SAY????
WHAT IDIOCY!
No thanks.
If you find that everyone is against you... perhaps it's time to ask if it's them, or if it's you.
First, the thread that was posted is one full of slant and anti-Catholic whoppers (even if there is some truth to it). It's puts the Catholics in a position of first defeating the whoppers, then actually talking about the doctrines. Not worth the time for most of us.
Second, nobody "hijacked" the thread. It was never a discussion to begin with - only self-congratulation amongst the Protestants, and the complaints of the few Catholics who felt like confronting it tonight.
Third, theology and civil discourse is scarce here. From both sides.
Who behaved badly on this thread is of little concern to me; the trend goes well beyond this thread.
You mean like Catholics calling us scum? And bigots? [...] Then you need to take that up with the Catholics on FR. They're the ones calling us anti-Catholic and bigot, etc. We don't call ourselves that.
I know you don't call yourselves that... and it's not a charge that ought be leveled on all of you. But I'm certainly going to agree that it deserves to be leveled against some of you. Enough Catholics here have seen anti-Catholic bigotry (in Real life, not just on FR) to recognize it and call it for what it is. If you want to talk about it more, PM me.
Could you be more specific about what you consider slander in the article?
Slander is the wrong word. The accusations that Ryle and Latimer make against the Catholic Church are half-truths. They point out what may well have been legitimate abuses (uneducated priests, lack of preaching, corruption in the Vatican, etc.); However, they also paint things inherent to the Catholic system such as the Mass, the priesthood, penance and the other Sacraments, the veneration of relics, and other things that are inherent to the Apostolic Faith (the Orthodox do them too) as part of that corrupt system. Indeed these things are not part of the corrupt system, as they are part of the Catholic Faith received from the Apostles.
In addition to this is the idea that the Bible in Vernacular was somehow contrary to Catholicism - indeed, it was only prohibited to produce a translation without the approval of the Church, not for there to be an English translation of Scripture. In fact, the Church even took no issue with Wyclyffe's translation, provided that the Catholics who owned copies of it removed his heretical commentaries. I'll just leave this here for anyone interested in reading more.
No, I will not defend it beyond that, because EACH of those things would require a whole thread to be intelligently discussed. Besides this, each HAS ALREADY BEEN defended by Catholics on FR, ad nauseam. My doing so again will do no good.
It's already Sunday morning where I am. I don't have time to discuss it any more.
You deserve more of a response than the snarky one I just gave you. More to follow in a moment.
Abuses. There were lots of them in the Middle Ages. The People of God deserved better, and the Catholic Church fouled it up bad. But there are also lots of other things that Ryle and Latimer rejected as errors and excess (Mass, priesthood, veneration of relics, Penance) that at their heart are part of the Catholic Faith. Perhaps someday these can be discussed charitably. This thread, however, is irreparably poisoned by both sides.
A "catch all" discussion about all of the things that the Reformers complained about concerning the Catholic Church isn't going to be productive. And lots of the Catholics here have decided they want no parts of it. Frankly, maybe it's time for me to go off the RF for a while again too.
Your nice sounding appeal just has absolutely no congruence with the reality from the RC camp hereon lo these many years—none whatsoever.
Sooooooooo, dream on. . . just be sure to place the blame for lack of civil discourse where it solidly belongs—on the shoulders of FR’s ever present ever relentless Rabid Clique types.
I've been here five years... long enough to know that NEITHER side can take the moral high ground against the other... so there's no point in lecturing me on the sins of the "Rabid Clique" types. If we want to go and hold grudges, there's plenty of blame to go around, present company included.
I've also been here long enough to know when a thread has gone beyond the point of bearing good fruit.
And this one has long surpassed that point.
A Blessed Sunday to you and yours.
Thanks for this post.
And thanks for this post, also.
You have expressed my own sentiments about this thread.
If the article is so full of slants and lies, then why not start with your favorite few and speak about why they are untrue. I know I would be more than happy to engage with you as would the poster who put it up. Nobody even tried and the nastiness started almost immediately. Tell me why we have Catholic threads that consistently trash the "Protestant" differences? Are not Catholics just as worthy of criticism?
Second, nobody "hijacked" the thread. It was never a discussion to begin with - only self-congratulation amongst the Protestants, and the complaints of the few Catholics who felt like confronting it tonight.
Well, the most virulent initial posts have been deleted by the Moderator so you cannot see them now. Believe me, they started nasty and went up from there. There was no interest in disputing any facts from the article, only Molotov cocktails thrown in every response. How can you then expect a respectful dialog?
Third, theology and civil discourse is scarce here. From both sides.
It is scarce only on those threads that get sidetracked into flame throwing. I have even seen some of them go for thousands of posts with only a few dishonest or hateful comments. People who are interested in apologetics seem to manage just fine with others who oppose as long as respect is mutual. There are many Roman Catholics on this site with whom I have a loving and congenial relationship. We exchange prayer requests, blessings and disappointments. I am convinced that there are very few Freepers who have no point to share other than in flame-baiting, but ignored, they usually slink away.
I absolutely love the opportunity I have here on Free Republic to "talk" to people from all walks of life and I am grateful we have such a forum to do so. I would hate for the few "ingrates" to spoil it for the rest of us and, if we let them, we have only ourselves to blame.
“How about I ask pretty please? Post them here, along with your church’s website. Let’s see what you believe is Christianity, if you would.”
How about you do you own homework?
My church? I belong to Jesus Christ. I am a Christian. I am part of the Bride of Christ. Biblically, not popishly.
As you can guess, I’m protestant. What more could you want?!
:)
Hoss
One can clearly see what the author is saying in the scriptures themselves.. There is no priesthood in the new church. Greek is very clear on that
. There is a word for priest in greek and it is NEVER USED FOR THE NEW CHURCH. That word is "hiereus", the greek word for elder is presbyteros'''. The defination for elder is a term of rank or office a) among the Jews
1) members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men
)
2) of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
c) the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God
Elders is a leadership role, not a roll of sacrificer .
You see the scriptural division in passages like this
Mark 15;1And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
Young's Literal Greek Translation ... Acts 4:5 And it came to pass upon the morrow, there were gathered together of them the rulers, and elders, and scribes, to Jerusalem,
Even the Douay-Rheims Bible does not translate that as priests..
Acts 4:5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their princes, and ancients, and scribes, were gathered together in Jerusalem;
A poor translation from the greek, but non the less even they did not translate it as priest.
The sacrifice of Christ on the cross is the final sacrifice.. not a model for the mass :)
I wouldn't expect it to since the Catholics are the ones piling on the nastiness.
If it's little concern, why are you chastising the non-Catholics then.
Your actions say otherwise.
Slander is the wrong word. The accusations that Ryle and Latimer make against the Catholic Church are half-truths.
Were any of the FRoman Catholics there to verify what the say happened in the day in which Latimer was living? He was there. On what basis do you know that he was lying? You must have some documentation to back yourself up.
Ryle was much closer to the situation in time as well.
Can you tell me the observable difference between veneration and worship?
If I am observing you praying how will I see the difference?
:)
>>How about the Church that wrote (the NT), preserved and canonized the Bible?<<
And then went totally off kilter with a sinless Mary, the bodily assumption of Mary, the idea that Peter was the first Pope, the veneration of relics etc.
I trust that God has kept for us the original inspired writings. The original gatherings of what the apostles called the church has little resemblance to what the RCC has become today. One needs to watch as churches stray from the original as most organized churches of today have.
Unfortunately no ...there are real questions to be asked, real history to be addressed.. and all the Catholics can do is mock and insult individuals .. This is a matter of the salvation of men.. and rather than look for the truth they wallow in ignorance..
And likewise, I've had enough Catholics in real life tell me that I'm wrong for following Bible teachings and that I'm going to go to hell for it, both in real life and on FR.
It doesn't bother me in the least. My salvation is not based on church affiliation and I know that, but I don't expect most Catholics to know, or admit that. I was raised Catholic in an extended Catholic family, which included priests and a nun, grew up with Catholic classmates, worked with Catholic co-workers.
Catholics do not make any secret of what they really believe so I know what on the ground, grassroots lay Catholics think and believe about their faith. Sometimes it's different from actual CCC teaching. Often it's not.
Christian does not by default mean Catholic. Catholic does not by default mean Christian. They are not synonymous.
There are Christians in all denominations and Christians who belong to none. There are non-Christians in all denominations.
What God desires is a relationship with Him, not an adherence to a laundry list of legalistic do's and don't's - of which the Catholic church is not the only guilty party in that respect by any means. Any church that says that membership in it or following THEIR own rules and regs is what gets you into heaven is just as bad, and I've attended Baptist churches that can give the best of the Pharisees a run for their money as far as legalism is concerned.
FWIW, even Pentecostals have their own brand of legalism. They just don't recognize it or admit it.
The NT was written by the NT church and recognized long before the Roman Catholic church existed..
If the Catholic church was responsible for the bible..they did a terrible job putting their doctrine in it.. there is no pope, no priesthood,no confession,no mass, no indulgences, no assumption, no prayers to saints or Mary, no relics, no celibacy and most of all it teaches clearly salvation by faith alone..
The Roman Catholic church bears no resemblance to the NT church.. not one wit
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