Posted on 01/08/2011 6:43:59 PM PST by Grig
400 years ago Catholics looked on Protestantism as a cult of Christianity that lead people to hell, and looked on Protestants as not really being Christians. Clearly they've changed their minds a bit over the years on that.
In time, the same thing will happen with respect to Mormons IMHO. In fact it largely has already. While there are still some who speak of Mormons the same way that Catholics spoke of Protestants centuries ago, society in general recognizes The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as a Christian group.
For example:
Beliefnet.com lists Latter-Day Saints as a part of Christianity: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Latter-Day-Saints/index.aspx
Wikipedia: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (abbreviated as the LDS Church, and colloquially referred to as the Mormon Church) is a restorationist Christian religion" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
Likewise the definition of 'Christian' at dictionary.com doesn't require adherence to orthodox dogma. Nor am I aware of any reputable dictionary or encyclopedia that says otherwise.
Here on FR when you go to post to the Religion forum you have the option of checking off what denomination(s) the post applies to. In there it lists the category of "Other Christian" as being specifically for "7th Day Adventist, Churches of God, Messianic Christians, Unitarian, LDS, etc."
This of course is separate from the question of what set of teachings is actually correct. Christ taught that not all who lay claim to his name will have a legitimate claim, and in the end He will be the judge. That's fine with me.
James2:24 answers you better than i can “you see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” what did James say “not by faith alone”
your problem is you confuse works done without being in a state of grace and works done after being in a state of grace. of course faith is required, but we are not justified by faith or works, we are justified by grace alone.
BTW - when were you appointed the thread moderator?
Excellent passage and reminder. I forgot that one!
Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
You asked for where in the Bible it says faith alone - look above. Interesting how you cherry pick those verses out of the Bible.
Your argument isn't with me - its with God. Have fun.
i’m not the one claiming by faith alone, when the Bible declares explicitly the exact opposite!
what you also don’t understand is faith is a gift and as such it is a work, just as much as other good works. a work is something a human does. grace is a gift from God and must be present before man can respond in faith.
you don’t merit grace by your faith!
one more thought, if faith is completed by works, faith alone must not be sufficient if it needs to be completed. it’s almost as if the whole book of james was written with the 16th century in mind.
Yeah, sure, whatever you say. RCs nitpick the incidentals while completely missing the salient points. Hitler and the majority of his men were Roman Catholic. A Roman Catholic pope handed Germany over to the Nazis. Roman Catholic churches and schools were generally left alone because Rome played ball with the Nazis.
It's called appeasement. It's called self-interest. It's called antisemitism.
It's call Roman Catholicism.
Are you reading impaired????
Romans 3:28 - " 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
What part of WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW can't you comprehend???? That's FAITH ALONE.
Also, I DIDN'T WRITE ROMANS 3:28 - GOD DID!
Take it up with HIM.
this post fits my discussion with conservativegramma and i think st paul in 1 Corinthians 13:2 seems quite appropriate to answer.
deeds of the law is not the same as good works. you are putting the word “alone” in the verse and it is not there!! no matter how much you insult me, the only time the Bible addresses faith and alone in the same verse is in James and therefore you must argue with God. Your faith is a work, just as other works are.
let me see if you are reading impaired, quote James 2:24 to me please.
Not really. 2 Timothy 4:2 and Titus 2:15 are both more appropriate to the occasion.
Do RC priests show "charity" to the children they rape?
Did RC voters display "charity" when the majority of them voted for Obama?
Rome doesn't know the meaning of "charity." It means to give selflessly. No agenda. Something very foreign to a bunch of old men in dresses who hallucinate themselves to be "another Christ."
aren’t you glad that those bunch of old men in dresses devoted their lives to copy the Bible by hand for over 1,500 years so you have the chance to spew out what spew out and feel justified in doing so because you throw a verse from the Catholic Scriptures in every now and then?
Paul clearly teaches that we are justified by faith and not by works (Rom. 1:17; Romans 3:28). ...James declares, 'Was not Abraham our father justified by works' (2:21). ...James and Paul would be contradictory if they were speaking about the same thing, but there are many indications in the text that they are not. Paul is speaking about justification before God, while James is talking about justification before humans.
This is indicated by the fact that James stressed that we should 'show' (2:18) our faith. It must be something that can be seen by others in 'works' (2:18-20). Further, James acknowledged that Abraham was justified before God by faith, not works, when he said, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousnes' (James 2:23). When he adds that Abraham was 'justified by works' (v. 21), he is speaking of what Abraham did that could be seen by people, namely offer his son Isaac on the altar (vs. 21-22).
...Paul is stressing the root of justification (faith); James is stressing the fruit of justification (works). ...works as the proof of faith.”
ALL of the Scriptures must be read for proper exegesis; not one verse taken out of its context like you are doing. Your interpretation CONTRADICTS Paul in Romans 3:28 just for starters; therefore it CANNOT be accurate.
Like I said if you want to continue to camp out on ONE VERSE in James while ignoring the entire books of Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, and Titus I'm going to camp out on James 2:10 -
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
How's that thought life one lord???? Speech???? Ever disobeyed your mom when you were little????? Ever got angry with someone????? How's that PERFECTION working out for ya?
You mean the same guys in dresses who chained the Bible to the alter and refused to let the congregation read it, lest they come to a different conclusion than Mother Russia...I mean, Mother Rome?
The same guys who burned at the stake men like John Wycliffe who translated the Bible into English and John Hus who believed all men should be able to possess the Bible in their native language, and should not be put to death for simply carrying a non-Latin Bible?
Those guys?
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Amen!
Catholicism has experienced “the greatest net loss” of any major religious group. Those who have left Catholicism outnumber those who have joined the church by an almost four-to-one margin. Ex-Catholics, if one considered them a denomination, would be the second-largest in the country behind Catholics, who list 68.1 million members. “The ‘had it’ Catholics,” National Catholic Reporter ,Oct. 11, 2001, based on reports from the 2008 Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life survey and the National Council of Churches’ 2010 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches. http://ncronline.org/news/faith-parish/had-it-catholics
But mainline Prots are not dong well either.
700000 Jews were saved from the holocaust by the Catholic Church.
Well... by trusting in the TRUE Jesus I would expect a person would receive a TRUE salvation.
By trusting in a FALSE Jesus, I would say one would recieve a FALSE salvation.
How 'sincere' a person's belief is, does not seem to enter into the picture...
Ah...
We BOTH like this verse! ;^)
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