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Mormon and Christian
Grig

Posted on 01/08/2011 6:43:59 PM PST by Grig

400 years ago Catholics looked on Protestantism as a cult of Christianity that lead people to hell, and looked on Protestants as not really being Christians. Clearly they've changed their minds a bit over the years on that.

In time, the same thing will happen with respect to Mormons IMHO. In fact it largely has already. While there are still some who speak of Mormons the same way that Catholics spoke of Protestants centuries ago, society in general recognizes The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as a Christian group.

For example:

Beliefnet.com lists Latter-Day Saints as a part of Christianity: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Latter-Day-Saints/index.aspx

Wikipedia: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (abbreviated as the LDS Church, and colloquially referred to as the Mormon Church) is a restorationist Christian religion" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

Likewise the definition of 'Christian' at dictionary.com doesn't require adherence to orthodox dogma. Nor am I aware of any reputable dictionary or encyclopedia that says otherwise.

Here on FR when you go to post to the Religion forum you have the option of checking off what denomination(s) the post applies to. In there it lists the category of "Other Christian" as being specifically for "7th Day Adventist, Churches of God, Messianic Christians, Unitarian, LDS, etc."

This of course is separate from the question of what set of teachings is actually correct. Christ taught that not all who lay claim to his name will have a legitimate claim, and in the end He will be the judge. That's fine with me.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: choosethecross; ctr; inman; lds; mormon; mormonism; vanity
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To: conservativegramma

James2:24 answers you better than i can “you see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” what did James say “not by faith alone”

your problem is you confuse works done without being in a state of grace and works done after being in a state of grace. of course faith is required, but we are not justified by faith or works, we are justified by grace alone.

BTW - when were you appointed the thread moderator?


241 posted on 01/10/2011 7:48:40 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: MHGinTN

Excellent passage and reminder. I forgot that one!


242 posted on 01/10/2011 7:51:51 PM PST by conservativegramma
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
I already answered your woeful interpretation of James 2:24. Go back and re-read this one:

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

You asked for where in the Bible it says faith alone - look above. Interesting how you cherry pick those verses out of the Bible.

Your argument isn't with me - its with God. Have fun.

243 posted on 01/10/2011 7:56:31 PM PST by conservativegramma
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To: conservativegramma

i’m not the one claiming by faith alone, when the Bible declares explicitly the exact opposite!
what you also don’t understand is faith is a gift and as such it is a work, just as much as other good works. a work is something a human does. grace is a gift from God and must be present before man can respond in faith.
you don’t merit grace by your faith!


244 posted on 01/10/2011 8:03:51 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: conservativegramma

one more thought, if faith is completed by works, faith alone must not be sufficient if it needs to be completed. it’s almost as if the whole book of james was written with the 16th century in mind.


245 posted on 01/10/2011 8:10:31 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Gapplega
There were none of those in Catholic Churches in Germany. NEVER.

Yeah, sure, whatever you say. RCs nitpick the incidentals while completely missing the salient points. Hitler and the majority of his men were Roman Catholic. A Roman Catholic pope handed Germany over to the Nazis. Roman Catholic churches and schools were generally left alone because Rome played ball with the Nazis.

It's called appeasement. It's called self-interest. It's called antisemitism.

It's call Roman Catholicism.

246 posted on 01/10/2011 8:11:22 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
i’m not the one claiming by faith alone, when the Bible declares explicitly the exact opposite!

Are you reading impaired????

Romans 3:28 - " 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

What part of WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW can't you comprehend???? That's FAITH ALONE.

Also, I DIDN'T WRITE ROMANS 3:28 - GOD DID!

Take it up with HIM.

247 posted on 01/10/2011 8:16:09 PM PST by conservativegramma
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

this post fits my discussion with conservativegramma and i think st paul in 1 Corinthians 13:2 seems quite appropriate to answer.


248 posted on 01/10/2011 8:19:18 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: conservativegramma

deeds of the law is not the same as good works. you are putting the word “alone” in the verse and it is not there!! no matter how much you insult me, the only time the Bible addresses faith and alone in the same verse is in James and therefore you must argue with God. Your faith is a work, just as other works are.


249 posted on 01/10/2011 8:25:10 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: conservativegramma

let me see if you are reading impaired, quote James 2:24 to me please.


250 posted on 01/10/2011 8:27:24 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; Dr. Eckleburg

Not really. 2 Timothy 4:2 and Titus 2:15 are both more appropriate to the occasion.


251 posted on 01/10/2011 8:28:01 PM PST by conservativegramma
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
lol. "Charity." Did Pacelli show "charity" to the Jews he forsook and ignored?

Do RC priests show "charity" to the children they rape?

Did RC voters display "charity" when the majority of them voted for Obama?

Rome doesn't know the meaning of "charity." It means to give selflessly. No agenda. Something very foreign to a bunch of old men in dresses who hallucinate themselves to be "another Christ."

252 posted on 01/10/2011 8:33:06 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

aren’t you glad that those bunch of old men in dresses devoted their lives to copy the Bible by hand for over 1,500 years so you have the chance to spew out what spew out and feel justified in doing so because you throw a verse from the Catholic Scriptures in every now and then?


253 posted on 01/10/2011 8:43:16 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Not until you quote Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-10; Galatians 2:21; Titus 3:5; etc. etc. You are taking one verse out of its context....back up to verse 14 and start over. #1 James is dealing with people who profess to be Christians, and yet they don't evidence the reality of their faith by their works [deeds]. Over, and over again... people will say they have faith and they don't have works, and James is saying that real faith always produces works.

Paul clearly teaches that we are justified by faith and not by works (Rom. 1:17; Romans 3:28). ...James declares, 'Was not Abraham our father justified by works' (2:21). ...James and Paul would be contradictory if they were speaking about the same thing, but there are many indications in the text that they are not. Paul is speaking about justification before God, while James is talking about justification before humans.

This is indicated by the fact that James stressed that we should 'show' (2:18) our faith. It must be something that can be seen by others in 'works' (2:18-20). Further, James acknowledged that Abraham was justified before God by faith, not works, when he said, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousnes' (James 2:23). When he adds that Abraham was 'justified by works' (v. 21), he is speaking of what Abraham did that could be seen by people, namely offer his son Isaac on the altar (vs. 21-22).

...Paul is stressing the root of justification (faith); James is stressing the fruit of justification (works). ...works as the proof of faith.”

ALL of the Scriptures must be read for proper exegesis; not one verse taken out of its context like you are doing. Your interpretation CONTRADICTS Paul in Romans 3:28 just for starters; therefore it CANNOT be accurate.

Like I said if you want to continue to camp out on ONE VERSE in James while ignoring the entire books of Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, and Titus I'm going to camp out on James 2:10 -

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

How's that thought life one lord???? Speech???? Ever disobeyed your mom when you were little????? Ever got angry with someone????? How's that PERFECTION working out for ya?

254 posted on 01/10/2011 8:50:48 PM PST by conservativegramma
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

You mean the same guys in dresses who chained the Bible to the alter and refused to let the congregation read it, lest they come to a different conclusion than Mother Russia...I mean, Mother Rome?

The same guys who burned at the stake men like John Wycliffe who translated the Bible into English and John Hus who believed all men should be able to possess the Bible in their native language, and should not be put to death for simply carrying a non-Latin Bible?

Those guys?


255 posted on 01/10/2011 9:13:07 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: conservativegramma
Like I said if you want to continue to camp out on ONE VERSE in James while ignoring the entire books of Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, and Titus I'm going to camp out on James 2:10 -

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Amen!

256 posted on 01/10/2011 9:18:53 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Catholicism has experienced “the greatest net loss” of any major religious group. Those who have left Catholicism outnumber those who have joined the church by an almost four-to-one margin. Ex-Catholics, if one considered them a denomination, would be the second-largest in the country behind Catholics, who list 68.1 million members. “The ‘had it’ Catholics,” National Catholic Reporter ,Oct. 11, 2001, based on reports from the 2008 Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life survey and the National Council of Churches’ 2010 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches. http://ncronline.org/news/faith-parish/had-it-catholics

But mainline Prots are not dong well either.


257 posted on 01/10/2011 9:46:23 PM PST by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

700000 Jews were saved from the holocaust by the Catholic Church.


258 posted on 01/11/2011 3:04:13 AM PST by Gapplega
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
The Mormons and JW’s believe Jesus was sent from God, are they saved?

Well... by trusting in the TRUE Jesus I would expect a person would receive a TRUE salvation.

By trusting in a FALSE Jesus, I would say one would recieve a FALSE salvation.

How 'sincere' a person's belief is, does not seem to enter into the picture...


 
 
 
 One day it may come back to you that Christians are allowed and indeed tasked by Christ and the Apostles themselves to defend the faith and expose false teachers and those who are taking advantage of the weak in faith.


 
Acts 2:42
  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
 
 
 Acts 4:2
 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.
 
 
Acts 5:42
  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.
 
 
Acts 13:1
  In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.
 
 
 Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.
 
 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.


259 posted on 01/11/2011 4:08:57 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
The very same John...

Ah...

We BOTH like this verse! ;^)

260 posted on 01/11/2011 4:10:08 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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